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Old 02-28-2014, 05:53 PM   #1
he grant
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Default Enjoying Carpentier's Autobiography ..

Picked this up via the scholar , Mr. Moyle, and I'm deeply enjoying his first hand perspective of Dempsey, Jeannette, Smith and Siki ..

He claims that Dempsey was a murderous puncher and the fastest man above middleweight he ever met .. that being said he placed a great deal of blame for his loss on breaking his right hand in the first round .. he gave Jack credit fork taking his best right hand ever thrown on the cheek quite well ut thought if it landed on the chin it would have been over ..

He flat out claims that he was robbed in the Jeannette fight .. that he won cleanly and knocked Joe down along the way ..

He speaks of Smith as a murderous puncher .. I have to reread that section as I skimmed through it ..

He openly admits that foul play was involved w Siki and that he himself was double crossed .. he did not train .. he could have stopped him in the first round if he did not hold back according t the agreement .. he broke a hand again .. he was badly winded because of lack of training and Siki, who was previously terrified, caught him and got lucky ..

What's true and what's not , who knows ? However, simply reading his description of the Dempsey bout including his accounts of that day easing up to the bout and the bout itself were terrific .. I have nit even gotten up to Tunney yet ..
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Old 02-28-2014, 06:40 PM   #2
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Post Re: Enjoying Carpentier's Autobiography ..

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Originally Posted by he grant View Post
Picked this up via the scholar , Mr. Moyle, and I'm deeply enjoying his first hand perspective of Dempsey, Jeannette, Smith and Siki ..

He claims that Dempsey was a murderous puncher and the fastest man above middleweight he ever met .. that being said he placed a great deal of blame for his loss on breaking his right hand in the first round .. he gave Jack credit fork taking his best right hand ever thrown on the cheek quite well ut thought if it landed on the chin it would have been over ..

He flat out claims that he was robbed in the Jeannette fight .. that he won cleanly and knocked Joe down along the way ..

He speaks of Smith as a murderous puncher .. I have to reread that section as I skimmed through it ..

He openly admits that foul play was involved w Siki and that he himself was double crossed .. he did not train .. he could have stopped him in the first round if he did not hold back according t the agreement .. he broke a hand again .. he was badly winded because of lack of training and Siki, who was previously terrified, caught him and got lucky ..

What's true and what's not , who knows ? However, simply reading his description of the Dempsey bout including his accounts of that day easing up to the bout and the bout itself were terrific .. I have nit even gotten up to Tunney yet ..
don't let Klompton hear you talking like that!!?

hehe anywhoo which book have you got - think I have the same one - I found a something like 1942 edition or something in a battered old antique shop deep in a Paris back street about 15 years ago - if it's the same one - was blown away when I came across hiding at the back of a shelf behind a load of other stuff and it is a great book the one I have - it was sealed in a plastic covering when I found it which looked as tho it had been wrapping it up since 1942 and inside it had some drawings that I assume it's original owner had hand drawn of Dempsey Carp and also Greb which were dated 1942 - kept the drawings hidden in the middle pages where I found them and still have the lot at home on the shelf - nice to hear someone else get there hands on a copy
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Old 02-28-2014, 06:50 PM   #3
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Default Re: Enjoying Carpentier's Autobiography ..

I couldnt stand it. He had an excuse every time he lost and outright lied about the results of fights like Gibbons and others. One of the most biased and self serving biographies Ive ever read. Particularly his recounting of the Siki debacle in which he glosses over not only his involvement but also his poor performance. For a guy who didnt train he was in phenomenal condition that day and was stopped after just over 5 rounds. It would have been nice to see him give credit to some of the other fighters he faced besides Dempsey. He even called one of his early French opponents "ridiculous" despite that guy being a predecessor of Carp and one of the most influential early French boxers. But hey, the guy knocked Carpentier out so lets make sure we dont give him any credit and have a ready excuse.
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Old 02-28-2014, 10:22 PM   #4
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Default Re: Enjoying Carpentier's Autobiography ..

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I couldnt stand it. He had an excuse every time he lost and outright lied about the results of fights like Gibbons and others. One of the most biased and self serving biographies Ive ever read. Particularly his recounting of the Siki debacle in which he glosses over not only his involvement but also his poor performance. For a guy who didnt train he was in phenomenal condition that day and was stopped after just over 5 rounds. It would have been nice to see him give credit to some of the other fighters he faced besides Dempsey. He even called one of his early French opponents "ridiculous" despite that guy being a predecessor of Carp and one of the most influential early French boxers. But hey, the guy knocked Carpentier out so lets make sure we dont give him any credit and have a ready excuse.
I feel a bit the same but am enjoying some of his first hand experiences of the Dempsey fight.
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Old 02-28-2014, 10:47 PM   #5
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Default Re: Enjoying Carpentier's Autobiography ..

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I couldnt stand it. He had an excuse every time he lost and outright lied about the results of fights like Gibbons and others. One of the most biased and self serving biographies Ive ever read. .
Every boxing bio I've read is like that. That's why I rarely bother with them anymore. I never could understand why people go crazy about Peter Heller's "In This Corner" and consider it a high mark in the pantheon of boxing books. I couldn't stand it. It was an unbearable 450 page excuse-fest.
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Old 03-01-2014, 12:33 AM   #6
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Default Re: Enjoying Carpentier's Autobiography ..

Did he have a reason for ducking Greb? Why was he afraid to even sit ringside at a Greb fight? And it comes to me as a great surprise that his most fantastic memories came from the fight that earned him the most ducats…

I will look again at the Siki fight and see if any of this seems to jive with the footage.
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Old 03-01-2014, 08:40 AM   #7
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Default Re: Enjoying Carpentier's Autobiography ..

Do scorecards and press score reporting exist for the Jeanette and Gibbons fights ? I'm just curious ...

Again, this book was extreme regarding every loss but there were still wonderful golden nuggets on other fronts ..
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Old 03-01-2014, 09:44 AM   #8
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Default Re: Enjoying Carpentier's Autobiography ..

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Do scorecards and press score reporting exist for the Jeanette and Gibbons fights ? I'm just curious ...

Again, this book was extreme regarding every loss but there were still wonderful golden nuggets on other fronts ..
I had a very detailed report from British "Boxing" and other English live sources that agreed with the Carp robbed theory. Cant lay my hands on them and my impression is that it was a case of what style of fighting you favoured.
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Old 03-01-2014, 12:09 PM   #9
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Default Re: Enjoying Carpentier's Autobiography ..

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Every boxing bio I've read is like that. That's why I rarely bother with them anymore. I never could understand why people go crazy about Peter Heller's "In This Corner" and consider it a high mark in the pantheon of boxing books. I couldn't stand it. It was an unbearable 450 page excuse-fest.
I'm with you regarding Heller's book.

Was Carpentier robbed vs Jeanette?
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Old 03-01-2014, 12:17 PM   #10
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Default Re: Enjoying Carpentier's Autobiography ..

Ive got several reports of both the Jeanette and Gibbons fights. The Jeanette fight reviews were mixed (and if memory serves Carp was the one knocked down) but more did think it was a bad decision. I find that suspect. Carpentier was so popular in Europe (including Britain) that the devotion to him was near fanatical. I could easily see this as being a case of people not wanting to believe he actually lost. I have never seen a report that said he won the Gibbons fight and I have a bunch. In fact he was dominated in that fight.
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Old 03-01-2014, 01:40 PM   #11
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Default Re: Enjoying Carpentier's Autobiography ..

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Originally Posted by klompton2 View Post
Ive got several reports of both the Jeanette and Gibbons fights. The Jeanette fight reviews were mixed (and if memory serves Carp was the one knocked down) but more did think it was a bad decision. I find that suspect. Carpentier was so popular in Europe (including Britain) that the devotion to him was near fanatical. I could easily see this as being a case of people not wanting to believe he actually lost. I have never seen a report that said he won the Gibbons fight and I have a bunch. In fact he was dominated in that fight.
I could definitely believe that - he was absolutely idolised so that could easily be the case - he was an international star in terms of Europe - and this can happen where people can't see what's really happening in front of them sometimes - or they can only see what they're wanting to see - a la Ali-Shavers amongst many others Ali-Norton 3, Ali-Young etc etc so this may well have been a case of people just being shocked that Carp lost and possibly clearly but then also Jeanette at that stage was not generally beating his man every time so it could genuinely be a bit of a shoddy decision - after all Carp did draw the short straw against Sikigetting kicked to the floor and then having the verdict handed to Siki
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Old 03-01-2014, 01:48 PM   #12
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Default Re: Enjoying Carpentier's Autobiography ..

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I could definitely believe that - he was absolutely idolised so that could easily be the case - he was an international star in terms of Europe - and this can happen where people can't see what's really happening in front of them sometimes - or they can only see what they're wanting to see - a la Ali-Shavers amongst many others Ali-Norton 3, Ali-Young etc etc so this may well have been a case of people just being shocked that Carp lost and possibly clearly but then also Jeanette at that stage was not generally beating his man every time so it could genuinely be a bit of a shoddy decision - after all Carp did draw the short straw against Sikigetting kicked to the floor and then having the verdict handed to Siki
Only when looking through the rose colored goggles of the Carpentier myth could a fixed fight in Carpentier's favor turn into a disadvantage for Carpentier.
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Old 03-02-2014, 08:09 AM   #13
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Default Re: Enjoying Carpentier's Autobiography ..

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The Jeanette fight reviews were mixed (and if memory serves Carp was the one knocked down) but more did think it was a bad decision.
Boxing (News) covered it extensively with many pictures .... Jeannette was the one knocked down, in the first round.
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Old 03-02-2014, 08:57 AM   #14
he grant
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Default Re: Enjoying Carpentier's Autobiography ..

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Originally Posted by RockysSplitNose View Post
I could definitely believe that - he was absolutely idolised so that could easily be the case - he was an international star in terms of Europe - and this can happen where people can't see what's really happening in front of them sometimes - or they can only see what they're wanting to see - a la Ali-Shavers amongst many others Ali-Norton 3, Ali-Young etc etc so this may well have been a case of people just being shocked that Carp lost and possibly clearly but then also Jeanette at that stage was not generally beating his man every time so it could genuinely be a bit of a shoddy decision - after all Carp did draw the short straw against Sikigetting kicked to the floor and then having the verdict handed to Siki
Makes sense .. We can possibly throw Johnson - Hart into that mix as well ..
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Old 03-02-2014, 10:28 AM   #15
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Default Re: Enjoying Carpentier's Autobiography ..

@ he grant
several times I have heard, that Carpentier had experience in savate (French boxing), too.
Is there any information about this in your book?
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