ESB Classic Forum All-Time Rankings by Division - P4P Survey Updated in October 2011 - Page 7

essexboy · 02-16-2010, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Son of Gaul

I still believe if you put all those guys in a 10x10 room, I'd put my money on Joe Frazier being the last man standing.

He wouldnt even come out of a room with George Foreman standing let alone all of them.

burt bienstock · 02-21-2010, 11:05 AM

Heck I would take Freddie SteeleTo put Carlos
onzon ahead of Geb or Robinson is ludercrous...Indeed over some others is a travisty..What great fighter [in their prime] did he beat...He was a good and long right hand puncher, but a slow methodical fighter fighting in a weak division. Heck I would take Freddie Steele,at Steele's peak over Monzon ..Look at Steele' opposition...Monzon great, but certainly overated...

Jorodz · 03-15-2010, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burt bienstock

Heck I would take Freddie SteeleTo put Carlos
onzon ahead of Geb or Robinson is ludercrous...Indeed over some others is a travisty..What great fighter [in their prime] did he beat...He was a good and long right hand puncher, but a slow methodical fighter fighting in a weak division. Heck I would take Freddie Steele,at Steele's peak over Monzon ..Look at Steele' opposition...Monzon great, but certainly overated...

i agree that carlos is often overrated but based on longevity and talent he should rate quite highly. the fact that steele isn't on there at all is quite odd now that i think about it considering his record

sugarsean · 04-17-2010, 09:07 PM

What happened to the bantamweight poll

Rumsfeld · 04-18-2010, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarsean

What happened to the bantamweight poll

Been too busy transcribing and doing other things recently.

Will TRY my best to get to it by the end of this week.

Apologies for the delay.

Only two surveys to go after this one.

teeto · 04-26-2010, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rumsfeld

Been too busy transcribing and doing other things recently.

Will TRY my best to get to it by the end of this week.

Apologies for the delay.

Only two surveys to go after this one.

What's the two? Flyweight and..... don't say p4p? Please not p4p!

WiDDoW_MaKeR · 04-26-2010, 10:51 AM

Lennox Lewis is definitely overrated. I am not saying that he wasn't a great boxer, because he was. He is also a tough matchup head 2 head for everyone. However, based on accomplishments... he just doesn't add up.

During Lewis' era... he didn't fight any of the other top fighters out there in their prime. At that time you had Mike Tyson, Riddick Bowe, Evander Holyfield, Michael Moorer, and George Foreman sitting on top of the division. Lennox failed to fight any of them while they were all fighting each other at their peak. Lennox wasn't even considered a real Champion until he beat Evander Holyfield.

Lewis' supposedly "great" title reign consisted of wins over

Michael Grant - We all know that Grant was a horribly overhyped boxer who was never very good.

Frans Botha - Tyson had just knocked him out a year earlier. I have no idea why Botha got a title shot.

David Tua - Very good win. However, Lewis was criticized in this fight for being safe and boring. I think he did what he needed to do, and it was a good win.

Hasim Rahman - Knocked Lewis out.

Hasim Rahman - Lewis wins back his titles.

Mike Tyson - Lewis beat an extremely over the hill version of Tyson. Pointless win other than satisfying the curiosity of a lot of fans who had a very hard time letting Tyson go. Many still do.

Vitali Klitschko - Lewis down on all scorecards is possibly saved from losing his title by way of Doctor stoppage due to a cut.

That is NOT an impressive reign as Champion. Especially when we also consider that he was stripped by the WBA for not fighting his #1 contender... then stripped by the IBF for not fighitng his #1 contender... and last but not least... sat on his title for 8 months after his fight with Klitschko, trying to sue Mike Tyson back into the ring again... promises the fans and Klitschko a much needed and talked about rematch. Made Vitali jump through hoops in order to secure the rematch. Then, once the WBC demands that Lewis either begin negotiations with Vitali or be stripped of his title... Lewis retires.

What bothers me the most is that Lewis sat there through the 90's complaining about nobody wanting to give him his shot. Trashing Bowe for vacating the title rather than fighting him. Yet... IMMEDIATELY when Lewis became the recognized Champ, he did the exact same thing. Lewis ultimately Vacated all 3 of his titles to avoid fighting his #1 contenders.

That along with the fact that he never beat the best fighters of his era in their prime... Had a very ordinary title reign... and really never gave the fans the biggest fights that they wanted to see. Including a showdown with Wladimir Klitschko who was Lewis' #1 contender by Ring Magazine for 2 years.

Let's also not cry about Lewis not being given a shot at fighting one of top guys in his division earlier in the 90's either. Lewis accepted step aside money from Tyson, rather than taking the fight which was his if he wanted it. Of course it made perfect sense for Tyson to offer step aside money. Tyson wanted to fight for another title, a bigger payday, and a bigger fight. It was Lewis' own fault that he decided to accept the step aside money and was shut out of the mix. Had he taken the fight and beat Tyson. The division would have went through him. Instead, he was content to stay in the backround until all of the other stars burned out.

Rumsfeld · 04-26-2010, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teeto

What's the two? Flyweight and..... don't say p4p? Please not p4p!

I've said all along, original 8 classes plus P4P.

teeto · 04-26-2010, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rumsfeld

I've said all along, original 8 classes plus P4P.

Shit that's going to be hard.

PH|LLA · 05-24-2010, 04:40 PM

LMFAO At MANKIND was that for real or a joke

Bummy Davis · 07-07-2010, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rumsfeld

I will just use this thread to post all of our results.

HEAVYWEIGHT DIVISION RESULTS:

1. 1675 Muhammad Ali (52)
2. 1375 Joe Louis (23)
3. 638 Rocky Marciano (1)
4. 580 Larry Holmes
5. 488 Lennox Lewis (1)
6. 462 Jack Johnson (1)
7. 318 (tie) George Foreman
7. 318 (tie) Jack Dempsey (2)
9. 233 Mike Tyson
10. 221 Joe Frazier

Heavyweights Receiving Votes: 22
Number of Voting Participants: 80
Poll Started: June 23, 2009
Poll Closed: July 19, 2009

To read and debate the All-Time Heavyweight Poll:
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

To read the article inspired by this survey:
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHT DIVISION RESULTS:

1. 971 Ezzard Charles (30)
2. 652 Archie Moore (4)
3. 557 Gene Tunney (8 )
4. 452 Sam Langford (4)
5. 328 Michael Spinks (1)
6. 288 Bob Foster
7. 181 Harry Greb
8. 148 Billy Conn
9. 140 Tommy Loughran
10. 81 Bob Fitzsimmons

Light Heavyweights Receiving Votes: 26
Number of Voting Participants: 47
Poll Started: July 20, 2009
Poll Closed: August 20, 2009

To read and debate the All-Time Light Heavyweight Poll:
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

To read the article inspired by this survey:
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

MIDDLEWEIGHT DIVISION RESULTS:

1. 736 Carlos Monzon (13)
2. 718 Harry Greb (15)
3. 606 Marvin Hagler (8 )
4. 513 Sugar Ray Robinson (5)
5. 214 Bernard Hopkins
6. 155 Bob Fitzsimmons (2)
7. 140 Charles Burley
8. 121 Stanley Ketchel
9. 120 Mickey Walker
10. 116 Dick Tiger

Middleweights Receiving Votes: 36
Number of Voting Participants: 45
Poll Started: August 26, 2009
Poll Closed: September 23, 2009

To read and debate the All-Time Middleweight Poll:
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

To read the article inspired by this survey:
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

WELTERWEIGHT DIVISION RESULTS:

1. 1049 Sugar Ray Robinson (41)
2. 524 Sugar Ray Leonard
3. 322 Henry Armstrong
4. 301 Jose Napoles
5. 275 Kid Gavilan
6. 207 Emile Griffith
7. 174 Tommy Hearns
8. 129 Luis Rodriguez
9. 111 Barbados Joe Walcott
10. 87 Mickey Walker

Welterweights Receiving Votes: 35
Number of Voting Participants: 43
Poll Started: September 23, 2009
Poll Closed: October 22, 2009

To read and debate the All-Time Welterweight Poll:
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

To read the article inspired by this survey:
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

LIGHTWEIGHT DIVISION RESULTS:

1. 605 Roberto Duran (15)
2. 593 Benny Leonard (14)
3. 348 Joe Gans (2)
4. 243 Pernell Whitaker
5. 230 Henry Armstrong
6. 217 Ike Williams
7. 168 Carlos Ortiz
8. 87 Tony Canzoneri
9. 51 Barney Ross
10. 47 Jack McAulife (1)

Welterweights Receiving Votes: 27
Number of Voting Participants: 32
Poll Started: October 30, 2009
Poll Closed: November 19, 2009

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]To read and debate the All-Time Lightweight Poll:
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

To read the article inspired by this survey:
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

FEATHERWEIGHT DIVISION RESULTS:

1. 547 Willie Pep (13)
2. 442 Henry Armstrong (6)
3. 399 Sandy Saddler(4)
4. 314 Salvador Sanchez (5)
5. 129 Abe Attell (1)
6. 115 Jim Driscoll
7. 109 Alexis Arguello
8. 88 Vincente Saldivar
9. 67 Manny Pacquiao (1)
10. 61 George Dixon

Welterweights Receiving Votes: 28
Number of Voting Participants: 30
Poll Started: December 9, 2009
Poll Closed: January 19, 2010

To read and debate the All-Time Featherweight Poll:
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

To read the article inspired by this survey:
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

I think for the most part they are good lists much better than some of the so Called Boxing experts, like Monte Cox and Bert Sugar and a few others that THINK they are experts

Strongback · 07-25-2010, 12:13 PM

HEAVYWEIGHT DIVISION RESULTS:

1. 1675 Muhammad Ali (52)
2. 1375 Joe Louis (23)
3. 638 Rocky Marciano (1)
4. 580 Larry Holmes
5. 488 Lennox Lewis (1)
6. 462 Jack Johnson (1)
7. 318 (tie) George Foreman
7. 318 (tie) Jack Dempsey (2)
9. 233 Mike Tyson
10. 221 Joe Frazier

---------------------------------------------------

Everyone has there own favourites. My names aren't much different to the above but I think Jim Jeffries deserves a place in the 10.
Beating Corbett, Fitzsimmons and Sharkey twice each puts him right up there in terms of opposition beaten.

Here's my Top 10

1. Ali
1. Louis
3. Johnson
4. Holmes
5. Dempsey
6. Foreman
7. Marciano
8. Jeffries
9. Liston
10.Lewis

D.T · 07-30-2010, 02:26 PM

Heavyweight:

Holyfield not in the top 10? What the hell?

Light heavyweight:
Good rankings, but I think Moore is the best.

Middleweight:
Hagler is the best, followed by Robinson and then Monzon and then Greb (my opinion).

Welterweight:
Good rankings, but Leonard above Armstrong? Some would beg to differ.

Lightweight:
Perfect

Featherweight:
Perfect

Lunny · 08-08-2010, 12:17 PM

How's Marciano 3rd? I really didn't expect that coming into this thread.

Nicky P · 08-19-2010, 11:13 AM

very nice lists. about as solid as i've seen.

you cant satisfy everyone i know that, but i have a problem with Lewis's placement, Tyson being above Frazier and no Jake LaMotta? The only man to beat a prime Sugar Ray Robinson. Other than that I like the lists.

02-21-2010, 11:05 AM	#92
burt bienstock Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 7,122 vCash: 500	Re: ESB Classic Forum All-Time Rankings by Division (Featherweights Updated-February Heck I would take Freddie SteeleTo put Carlos onzon ahead of Geb or Robinson is ludercrous...Indeed over some others is a travisty..What great fighter [in their prime] did he beat...He was a good and long right hand puncher, but a slow methodical fighter fighting in a weak division. Heck I would take Freddie Steele,at Steele's peak over Monzon ..Look at Steele' opposition...Monzon great, but certainly overated...
Top

04-17-2010, 09:07 PM	#94
sugarsean Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: England Posts: 2,381 vCash: 1057	Re: ESB Classic Forum All-Time Rankings by Division (Featherweights Updated-February What happened to the bantamweight poll
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04-26-2010, 10:51 AM	#97
WiDDoW_MaKeR ESB Hall of Fame Member East Side VIP Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 23,986 vCash: 1000	Re: ESB Classic Forum All-Time Rankings by Division (Featherweights Updated-February Lennox Lewis is definitely overrated. I am not saying that he wasn't a great boxer, because he was. He is also a tough matchup head 2 head for everyone. However, based on accomplishments... he just doesn't add up. During Lewis' era... he didn't fight any of the other top fighters out there in their prime. At that time you had Mike Tyson, Riddick Bowe, Evander Holyfield, Michael Moorer, and George Foreman sitting on top of the division. Lennox failed to fight any of them while they were all fighting each other at their peak. Lennox wasn't even considered a real Champion until he beat Evander Holyfield. Lewis' supposedly "great" title reign consisted of wins over Michael Grant - We all know that Grant was a horribly overhyped boxer who was never very good. Frans Botha - Tyson had just knocked him out a year earlier. I have no idea why Botha got a title shot. David Tua - Very good win. However, Lewis was criticized in this fight for being safe and boring. I think he did what he needed to do, and it was a good win. Hasim Rahman - Knocked Lewis out. Hasim Rahman - Lewis wins back his titles. Mike Tyson - Lewis beat an extremely over the hill version of Tyson. Pointless win other than satisfying the curiosity of a lot of fans who had a very hard time letting Tyson go. Many still do. Vitali Klitschko - Lewis down on all scorecards is possibly saved from losing his title by way of Doctor stoppage due to a cut. That is NOT an impressive reign as Champion. Especially when we also consider that he was stripped by the WBA for not fighting his #1 contender... then stripped by the IBF for not fighitng his #1 contender... and last but not least... sat on his title for 8 months after his fight with Klitschko, trying to sue Mike Tyson back into the ring again... promises the fans and Klitschko a much needed and talked about rematch. Made Vitali jump through hoops in order to secure the rematch. Then, once the WBC demands that Lewis either begin negotiations with Vitali or be stripped of his title... Lewis retires. What bothers me the most is that Lewis sat there through the 90's complaining about nobody wanting to give him his shot. Trashing Bowe for vacating the title rather than fighting him. Yet... IMMEDIATELY when Lewis became the recognized Champ, he did the exact same thing. Lewis ultimately Vacated all 3 of his titles to avoid fighting his #1 contenders. That along with the fact that he never beat the best fighters of his era in their prime... Had a very ordinary title reign... and really never gave the fans the biggest fights that they wanted to see. Including a showdown with Wladimir Klitschko who was Lewis' #1 contender by Ring Magazine for 2 years. Let's also not cry about Lewis not being given a shot at fighting one of top guys in his division earlier in the 90's either. Lewis accepted step aside money from Tyson, rather than taking the fight which was his if he wanted it. Of course it made perfect sense for Tyson to offer step aside money. Tyson wanted to fight for another title, a bigger payday, and a bigger fight. It was Lewis' own fault that he decided to accept the step aside money and was shut out of the mix. Had he taken the fight and beat Tyson. The division would have went through him. Instead, he was content to stay in the backround until all of the other stars burned out.
Top

05-24-2010, 04:40 PM	#100
PH\|LLA ESB Junkie East Side VIP Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: YUL Posts: 46,635 vCash: 5685	Re: ESB Classic Forum All-Time Rankings by Division (Featherweights Updated-February LMFAO At MANKIND was that for real or a joke
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07-25-2010, 12:13 PM	#102
Strongback Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 9,998 vCash: 1000	Re: ESB Classic Forum All-Time Rankings by Division (Featherweights Updated-February HEAVYWEIGHT DIVISION RESULTS: 1. 1675 Muhammad Ali (52) 2. 1375 Joe Louis (23) 3. 638 Rocky Marciano (1) 4. 580 Larry Holmes 5. 488 Lennox Lewis (1) 6. 462 Jack Johnson (1) 7. 318 (tie) George Foreman 7. 318 (tie) Jack Dempsey (2) 9. 233 Mike Tyson 10. 221 Joe Frazier --------------------------------------------------- Everyone has there own favourites. My names aren't much different to the above but I think Jim Jeffries deserves a place in the 10. Beating Corbett, Fitzsimmons and Sharkey twice each puts him right up there in terms of opposition beaten. Here's my Top 10 1. Ali 1. Louis 3. Johnson 4. Holmes 5. Dempsey 6. Foreman 7. Marciano 8. Jeffries 9. Liston 10.Lewis
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07-30-2010, 02:26 PM	#103
D.T Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,012 vCash: 500	Re: ESB Classic Forum All-Time Rankings by Division (Featherweights Updated-February Heavyweight: Holyfield not in the top 10? What the hell? Light heavyweight: Good rankings, but I think Moore is the best. Middleweight: Hagler is the best, followed by Robinson and then Monzon and then Greb (my opinion). Welterweight: Good rankings, but Leonard above Armstrong? Some would beg to differ. Lightweight: Perfect Featherweight: Perfect
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08-08-2010, 12:17 PM	#104
Lunny GTMSBT Gold Member East Side VIP Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Team Ireland manor. Waiting for Pab to make the fucking challenge. Posts: 25,456 vCash: 271	Re: ESB Classic Forum All-Time Rankings by Division (Featherweights Updated-February How's Marciano 3rd? I really didn't expect that coming into this thread.
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08-19-2010, 11:13 AM	#105
Nicky P Jamiva Boxing ESB Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: NYC Posts: 714 vCash: 500	Re: ESB Classic Forum All-Time Rankings by Division (Featherweights Updated-February very nice lists. about as solid as i've seen. you cant satisfy everyone i know that, but i have a problem with Lewis's placement, Tyson being above Frazier and no Jake LaMotta? The only man to beat a prime Sugar Ray Robinson. Other than that I like the lists.
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