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Old 07-22-2009, 08:33 AM   #1
Stevie G
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Default What if Muhammad Ali had retired for good in 1975 ?

Being an Ali fan,I think it would have been marvelous for himself and us if he'd have called it quits then. His overall legacy would n't have been affected either. Alright he'd only be a two time Heavyweight Champion instead of three time,but his victory over Leon Spinks was no great shakes in comparisson to shocking Liston,Foreman and the world..! How does everybody see the heavyweight scene evolving in this alternate timeline ? I see something resembling the following scenario - George Foreman has his fight with Ron Lyle,with same result as reality. the WBC and WBA,very maturely,get together and hold a mini tournament (okay this is a fantasy !) Foreman beats Frazier just as he did in real time. Ken Norton beats Jimmy Young via unanimous decision.Then Foreman - Norton 2 takes place. Norton does a little better this time. He lasts until the fourth round,being level on points until Foreman tags him. thus Big George becomes the third man in history to regain the Heavyweight Championship of the world. Easy inside the distance wins follow against Earnie Shavers and Richard Dunn .By this time,say 1978,Foreman looks set to regain the invincible tag he had prior to his fight against Muhammad Ali. One night he puts his title on the line against an unbeaten,yet unheralded contender named Larry Holmes. In a shock victory Holmes builds up an early lead,drags himself off the canvas twice and stops George in the eleventh stanza. Foreman retires and my alternate reality reverts to real life as the Easton Assasin enjoys a long reign. Food for thought this. Is n't it ?
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:54 PM   #2
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Default Re: What if Muhammad Ali had retired for good in 1975 ?

Young, Foreman, and Norton would battle it out for the vacant belt, which Norton would win,and lose to Larry Holmes in 1978.
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Old 01-14-2013, 07:58 PM   #3
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Default Re: What if Muhammad Ali had retired for good in 1975 ?

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Young, Foreman, and Norton would battle it out for the vacant belt, which Norton would win,and lose to Larry Holmes in 1978.
norton would win against foreman?
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Old 01-14-2013, 08:28 PM   #4
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Default Re: What if Muhammad Ali had retired for good in 1975 ?

Without Ali the only man who could beat George was young. Probably the only man who could be young was Norton. And the only man who could beat Norton was George. Expect these to do a merry dance for the next 4 years until Holmes comes along and clears house.
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Old 01-15-2013, 01:37 AM   #5
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Default Re: What if Muhammad Ali had retired for good in 1975 ?

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Originally Posted by Stevie G View Post
Being an Ali fan,I think it would have been marvelous for himself and us if he'd have called it quits then. His overall legacy would n't have been affected either. Alright he'd only be a two time Heavyweight Champion instead of three time,but his victory over Leon Spinks was no great shakes in comparisson to shocking Liston,Foreman and the world..! How does everybody see the heavyweight scene evolving in this alternate timeline ? I see something resembling the following scenario - George Foreman has his fight with Ron Lyle,with same result as reality. the WBC and WBA,very maturely,get together and hold a mini tournament (okay this is a fantasy !) Foreman beats Frazier just as he did in real time. Ken Norton beats Jimmy Young via unanimous decision.Then Foreman - Norton 2 takes place. Norton does a little better this time. He lasts until the fourth round,being level on points until Foreman tags him. thus Big George becomes the third man in history to regain the Heavyweight Championship of the world. Easy inside the distance wins follow against Earnie Shavers and Richard Dunn .By this time,say 1978,Foreman looks set to regain the invincible tag he had prior to his fight against Muhammad Ali. One night he puts his title on the line against an unbeaten,yet unheralded contender named Larry Holmes. In a shock victory Holmes builds up an early lead,drags himself off the canvas twice and stops George in the eleventh stanza. Foreman retires and my alternate reality reverts to real life as the Easton Assasin enjoys a long reign. Food for thought this. Is n't it ?
I could see all that happening.
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Old 01-15-2013, 02:35 AM   #6
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Default Re: What if Muhammad Ali had retired for good in 1975 ?

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norton would win against foreman?
I reckon what is your thinking behind that...
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:06 AM   #7
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Default Re: What if Muhammad Ali had retired for good in 1975 ?

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Originally Posted by Stevie G View Post
Being an Ali fan,I think it would have been marvelous for himself and us if he'd have called it quits then. His overall legacy would n't have been affected either. Alright he'd only be a two time Heavyweight Champion instead of three time,but his victory over Leon Spinks was no great shakes in comparisson to shocking Liston,Foreman and the world..! How does everybody see the heavyweight scene evolving in this alternate timeline ? I see something resembling the following scenario - George Foreman has his fight with Ron Lyle,with same result as reality. the WBC and WBA,very maturely,get together and hold a mini tournament (okay this is a fantasy !) Foreman beats Frazier just as he did in real time. Ken Norton beats Jimmy Young via unanimous decision.Then Foreman - Norton 2 takes place. Norton does a little better this time. He lasts until the fourth round,being level on points until Foreman tags him. thus Big George becomes the third man in history to regain the Heavyweight Championship of the world. Easy inside the distance wins follow against Earnie Shavers and Richard Dunn .By this time,say 1978,Foreman looks set to regain the invincible tag he had prior to his fight against Muhammad Ali. One night he puts his title on the line against an unbeaten,yet unheralded contender named Larry Holmes. In a shock victory Holmes builds up an early lead,drags himself off the canvas twice and stops George in the eleventh stanza. Foreman retires and my alternate reality reverts to real life as the Easton Assasin enjoys a long reign. Food for thought this. Is n't it ?

My God !!


Someone's unearthed my very first post on this site July 2009.
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:28 PM   #8
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Default Re: What if Muhammad Ali had retired for good in 1975 ?

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Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
Without Ali the only man who could beat George was young. Probably the only man who could be young was Norton. And the only man who could beat Norton was George. Expect these to do a merry dance for the next 4 years until Holmes comes along and clears house.
Without the rumble, Young doesn't beat Foreman.
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Old 01-15-2013, 01:17 PM   #9
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Default Re: What if Muhammad Ali had retired for good in 1975 ?

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Without the rumble, Young doesn't beat Foreman.

Debatable. The Zaire Foreman could have stopped Young,but may still have been outboxed.
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Old 01-15-2013, 01:28 PM   #10
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Default Re: What if Muhammad Ali had retired for good in 1975 ?

I think Joe frazier lost to foreman first because he was somewhat ****y coming into the fight. He just came off a nice victory over Ali and was seen as the best in the whole world. I think Joe would be much more prepared and in shape the second time around and have a good chance of winning the fight.
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Old 01-15-2013, 01:30 PM   #11
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Default Re: What if Muhammad Ali had retired for good in 1975 ?

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Debatable. The Zaire Foreman could have stopped Young,but may still have been outboxed.
I'm talking about pre-Zaire.

A fair bit of the sport, like tennis and many other sports, is psychological. Mental toughness and confidence play a considerable role.

Zaire was a nightmare for George.

He was cut in training there and wanted to go home, but was 'kept' there by one means or another. Since the 68 Olympics, he was accustomed to being liked by the fans. He was hated and booed by the African crowds and he couldn't understand why.


And to make matters worse, he lost his title.

It wasn't the same George who returned from the dark continent.

Had he fought Jimmy Young instead of Ali, earlier that year in the States, I don't think Young would have prevailed.
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Old 01-15-2013, 01:34 PM   #12
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Default Re: What if Muhammad Ali had retired for good in 1975 ?

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I think Joe frazier lost to foreman first because he was somewhat ****y coming into the fight. He just came off a nice victory over Ali and was seen as the best in the whole world. I think Joe would be much more prepared and in shape the second time around and have a good chance of winning the fight.
Well, he lost second time around as well.

In a somewhat similar fashion.
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Old 01-15-2013, 01:38 PM   #13
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Default Re: What if Muhammad Ali had retired for good in 1975 ?

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Well, he lost second time around as well.

In a somewhat similar fashion.
Joe Frazier was out of his prime by then because of the damage sustained in the 3rd fight with Ali. If he had fought foreman before thrilla in manilla there would a good chance Frazier would beat foreman.

When Frazier first fought foreman he was like 10-15lbs higher than his weight when he first fought with Ali. Thats how you know he wasn't at his peak.
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Old 01-15-2013, 01:43 PM   #14
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Default Re: What if Muhammad Ali had retired for good in 1975 ?

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Originally Posted by Stevie G View Post
Being an Ali fan,I think it would have been marvelous for himself and us if he'd have called it quits then. His overall legacy would n't have been affected either. Alright he'd only be a two time Heavyweight Champion instead of three time,but his victory over Leon Spinks was no great shakes in comparisson to shocking Liston,Foreman and the world..! How does everybody see the heavyweight scene evolving in this alternate timeline ? I see something resembling the following scenario - George Foreman has his fight with Ron Lyle,with same result as reality. the WBC and WBA,very maturely,get together and hold a mini tournament (okay this is a fantasy !) Foreman beats Frazier just as he did in real time. Ken Norton beats Jimmy Young via unanimous decision.Then Foreman - Norton 2 takes place. Norton does a little better this time. He lasts until the fourth round,being level on points until Foreman tags him. thus Big George becomes the third man in history to regain the Heavyweight Championship of the world. Easy inside the distance wins follow against Earnie Shavers and Richard Dunn .By this time,say 1978,Foreman looks set to regain the invincible tag he had prior to his fight against Muhammad Ali. One night he puts his title on the line against an unbeaten,yet unheralded contender named Larry Holmes. In a shock victory Holmes builds up an early lead,drags himself off the canvas twice and stops George in the eleventh stanza. Foreman retires and my alternate reality reverts to real life as the Easton Assasin enjoys a long reign. Food for thought this. Is n't it ?
Can't add anyting to that Mr. G, perfect.
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Old 01-15-2013, 01:50 PM   #15
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Default Re: What if Muhammad Ali had retired for good in 1975 ?

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Originally Posted by xRedx View Post
Joe Frazier was out of his prime by then because of the damage sustained in the 3rd fight with Ali. If he had fought foreman before thrilla in manilla there would a good chance Frazier would beat foreman.

When Frazier first fought foreman he was like 10-15lbs higher than his weight when he first fought with Ali. Thats how you know he wasn't at his peak.


Foreman was all wrong for Frazier.
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