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Old 09-08-2007, 12:17 PM   #1
Sizzle
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Default Wladimir Klitschko - the next Joe Louis?

*ducks for cover*

Controversial title, but think about it for a minute - I'm referring solely to dominance.

In truth I don't think he'll match Joe Louis' dominance in terms of longevity and number of title defenses, infact given his age it's close to impossible, but he could come relatively close.

Chris Byrd was considered the Worlds number one heavyweight when he fought Klitschko, so I think given the lack of lineage and complete confusion surrounding the heavyweight division, it's somewhat fair to consider Klitschko the World's number one heavyweight - Pretty much everyone considered him the most worthy of being labelled "heavyweight champion" at this point.

Since then he has three impressive, convincing stoppage wins to his name - He also has wins against other fighters in the top10 such as Sam Peter.

Due moreso to the fact that the division stinks at the moment then his own ability it's difficult to see Klitschko surrendering his mantle as the top heavyweight in the World anytime soon.

I think it's possible Wladimir could notch up a number of defenses and reign for awhile.

Thoughts?
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Old 09-08-2007, 12:30 PM   #2
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko - the next Joe Louis?

More like Rocky Marciano or Tyson or Patterson imo.

No way will Wlad rein as long as Louis did. But he can make a good 4 or 5 year run as Patterson, Tyson or the Rock.
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Old 09-08-2007, 12:50 PM   #3
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko - the next Joe Louis?

The only problem, is that he needs to unify the title to have a rein that is legitimately comparable to someone like Joe Louis's. He also still has some unavenged losses, which are not likely to ever happen. That said though, I agree that he still has a shot at a good run.
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Old 09-08-2007, 01:40 PM   #4
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko - the next Joe Louis?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sizzle
*ducks for cover*

Controversial title, but think about it for a minute - I'm referring solely to dominance.

In truth I don't think he'll match Joe Louis' dominance in terms of longevity and number of title defenses, infact given his age it's close to impossible, but he could come relatively close.

Chris Byrd was considered the Worlds number one heavyweight when he fought Klitschko, so I think given the lack of lineage and complete confusion surrounding the heavyweight division, it's somewhat fair to consider Klitschko the World's number one heavyweight - Pretty much everyone considered him the most worthy of being labelled "heavyweight champion" at this point.

Since then he has three impressive, convincing stoppage wins to his name - He also has wins against other fighters in the top10 such as Sam Peter.

Due moreso to the fact that the division stinks at the moment then his own ability it's difficult to see Klitschko surrendering his mantle as the top heavyweight in the World anytime soon.

I think it's possible Wladimir could notch up a number of defenses and reign for awhile.

Thoughts?
This topic is controversial since Louis was one of the best heavyweights of all times, and Wlad still has a few prime years left on his career. What we can compare is ring records, quality of opposition, and styles.


Raw numbers:

Louis was 69-3, winning 95.8% of his fights.
Wlad is 49-3, winning 94.23% of his fights.

Edge Louis.

Louis has 55 Ko’s in 72 fights, for a KO% of 76.36
Wlad has 44 Ko’s in 52 fights, for a KO% of 84.61

Edge Wlad

Louis is 25-1 in world title matches! Simply amazing, though the competition wasn’t always good, and Louis like received a gift or two from the judges in decision fights.

Wlad is 11-2 in world alphabet title matches.

Edge Louis


Raw #’s = 2-1 edge for Louis


Offenses:

Both men had great offenses with top level hand speed. Klitschko’s sheer height , reach and weight advantages means he can hit and not be hit mostly on his terms. This makes a difference as Louis had trouble with boxer types, and gave up many rounds to the likes of Farr, Conn, and Pastor. Wlad is very dominant in the ring, and the best boxer types are lucky to win 3 rounds vs him as this includes guys like Byrd, Castillo and Brock.

Edge Wlad.



Defenses / Chins: Neither man took a great punch, though it could be argued that Klitschko has fought more dangerous punchers as a group. I tend to believe Louis took a better of a punch, but not by a significant margin. Defensively it seems like Wlad gets hit less. He has a better guard, better foot speed, and clinches better. Louis has more stamina. Hearts appear to be about even..

Edge: Even

Quality of Opposition: The quality of opposing between the two is slightly in favor or Louis, though Wlad has some big fights ahead of him.

Critics:

Louis has few critical points against him. He hardly defended his title against any black fighters. The best opponents he faced were Marciano, Charles, Walcott and Schmeling. His record vs these men is 3-3, however if you give Walcott the first fight on points, its gasp 2-4.

Wlad has been Ko’d three times, and though he is the clear #1 guy in his era, legacy fights and the lineal title are not in the cards for him due to modern boxing’s political fragmentation. The Brewster match proved Wlad can avenge his losses. A re-match with Sanders, and a title unification could further Wlad’s legacy. If neither is available, then Wlad will need to win many more title defenses.

Conclusion: You have to give Louis the edge at this moment in time, though in a pure boxing sense the two are comparable in many areas.
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Old 09-08-2007, 02:14 PM   #5
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko - the next Joe Louis?

Wlad's jab is ten times better than Louis'. His chin may be even. But his jab is the bomb.
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Old 09-08-2007, 02:15 PM   #6
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko - the next Joe Louis?

I belive Louis beat Farr pretty fair. It was Farr's pitty punching vs Louis's powerful jab and combos. At the end of the fight, Louis won on

Damage done

No marks on Louis, Farr had a busted nose, and both eyes were either close or swell.

effected agression, Louis was effection.

Louis did eveything in that fight but knock out Farr imo.
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Old 09-08-2007, 02:48 PM   #7
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko - the next Joe Louis?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sizzle
*ducks for cover*

Controversial title, but think about it for a minute - I'm referring solely to dominance.

In truth I don't think he'll match Joe Louis' dominance in terms of longevity and number of title defenses, infact given his age it's close to impossible, but he could come relatively close.

Chris Byrd was considered the Worlds number one heavyweight when he fought Klitschko, so I think given the lack of lineage and complete confusion surrounding the heavyweight division, it's somewhat fair to consider Klitschko the World's number one heavyweight - Pretty much everyone considered him the most worthy of being labelled "heavyweight champion" at this point.

Since then he has three impressive, convincing stoppage wins to his name - He also has wins against other fighters in the top10 such as Sam Peter.

Due moreso to the fact that the division stinks at the moment then his own ability it's difficult to see Klitschko surrendering his mantle as the top heavyweight in the World anytime soon.

I think it's possible Wladimir could notch up a number of defenses and reign for awhile.

Thoughts?
There will never be another Joe Louis because no champion would ever be able to fight that number of oponents in that time space even in the unlikley event that he was able to beat them all.

Where the comparison might be valid is that the only way Wlad can build a legacy is by beating large volumes of comparatively weaker opposition. Quantity over quality.
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Old 09-08-2007, 02:48 PM   #8
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko - the next Joe Louis?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KTFO
Wlad's jab is ten times better than Louis'. His chin may be even. But his jab is the bomb.
You badly under rate Louis here.
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Old 09-08-2007, 03:13 PM   #9
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko - the next Joe Louis?

Louis was the Greatest, he fought the best, different sizes,shapes,styles and colors, had the most defences and when he was really on, he was almost unbeatable (SCHMELING 2) (Max Baer) Louis had some flaws but ho didn't. most of his KD's were because of balance and Joe was very relaxed in the ring, but he got up, Vlad is in a different era and it is unlikely he will match Louis in regard to defences but he could obtain a high standing if he continues to fight and beat the best, times are different, training methods and at least Vlad conditions himself to come in fit and at the right weight, LBS lighter than fighters much shorter than him, Toney's 5"9 and 239lbs Briggs 268lbs, 6"4 Rahman 6"1 1/2 250, Danny Williams 6" 265lb, Vlad come s in at 243 and is 6"6 1/2 but he has to keep his mind on the sport and fight behind the jab, his next fight vs Tua should be interesting. Louis is my # 1, Vlad career is not over but he is improving and could go on to do some great things in the future, time will tell

Last edited by Zakman; 06-08-2006 at 12:33 AM.
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Old 09-09-2007, 06:06 AM   #10
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko - the next Joe Louis?

Louis' jab was technically insufficient. He threw the jab leaving his chin vulnerable to heavy rights. Schmeling's gameplan plus his victory based on that fact. Even Walcott floored him throwing that hard right.

Wlad has a brilliant jab plus power. And his ability to connect with a sharp left hook after throwing a jab makes him even more dangerous.
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Old 09-09-2007, 06:22 AM   #11
ChrisPontius
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko - the next Joe Louis?

I don't think Wlad can pass Louis for the reason Janitor mentioned: modern fighters don't fight more than three times a year.

There are some similarities between the two:

Both have incredible offensive ability, very few went the distance with them. Both have very quick, snappy jabs. Wlad lacks an uppercut, though. Louis has a great one.
They are also both quite susceptible to knockdowns. Neither have spent more than a few seconds on the canvas, although to be fair, it took Schmeling 12 rounds to stop Louis, whereas Sanders needed 2 for Wlad.


A lot depends on the next five years. He's established himself as the dominant fighter, but there are still a lot of things to achieve. Unifying the titles, fighting Sultan Ibragimov, Chagaev, rematch Peter, a future fight with Povetkin would be great. We'll see what the future brings.
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Old 09-09-2007, 05:11 PM   #12
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko - the next Joe Louis?

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by KTFO
Louis' jab was technically insufficient. He threw the jab leaving his chin vulnerable to heavy rights. Schmeling's gameplan plus his victory based on that fact.
Louis had been fighting profesionaly for less than two years when he lost to Schmeling. It was no more his peak than the Purity fight was Wlad's peak.

Quote:
Even Walcott floored him throwing that hard right.
Walcot could dump anybody on their but with a sneaky punch. He was the king of sneakynes.

Quote:
Wlad has a brilliant jab plus power. And his ability to connect with a sharp left hook after throwing a jab makes him even more dangerous.
Yet he still has technical limitations. It is fortunate for him that there is nobody around with the ability to exploit them.
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Old 09-10-2007, 03:08 AM   #13
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko - the next Joe Louis?

With the current state of the division, Klitschko could rule for years yet. There is nobody on the horizon that I can see beating him. On the other hand, with that chin he's always somewhat vulnerable to a surprise result, but in terms of actual ability there's nobody to touch him at the moment.

As Janitor said, Klitschko's legacy will have to be built on quantity, rather than quality.

I don't think Louis' records (lonegevity and defences) will ever be beaten. Even if somehow Wlad surpasses Louis' achievements, people will always turn around and say "yeah, but Louis was the undisputed champ."

Klitschko desperately needs to become undisputed to leave an enduring legacy in my opinion.
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Old 09-10-2007, 07:55 AM   #14
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko - the next Joe Louis?

It is ironic the little turns that life can take.

Three years ago Wlad ahd been virtualy written off having suffered his third catastrophik knockout loss. I was one of the few people sticking up for him then.

Now he is being compared to Joe Louis and is picked over many all time greats, somtimes on the flimsiest of pretexts.
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Old 09-10-2007, 08:13 AM   #15
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko - the next Joe Louis?

He has two losses to avenge before we even entertain this notion.
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