Damn. I rewatched MAB-JMM and IMO MAB won!!!

[PATSYS]

Here is my scorecard:

Round--MAB--JMM
1--10--9
2--10--9
3--10--9
4--9--10
5--9--10
6--10--9
7--10-10
8--10-9
9--10--10
10--9-10
11--9--10
12--10--9
-------------
--116--114


Notes:

Round 7, JMM dominated but MAB KD him, that should have made it 10-9 for MAB. However MAB gets deducted by a pt for hitting while JMM was down. Hence I scored even.

Round 9, MAB slightly edged JMM on this round but JMM landed harder shot, so I scored even.

Round 11, very close round but I scored for JMM for harder shots. Lederman scoredit for MAB though.


When I first watched it I had it clearly for JMM but after watching it again and carefully, MAB won that fight. And rounds 7 and 9 coudl very arguably be scored for MAB and that makes it a 2 pt swing for MAB.

MAB won that fight!!!

Comments??

[divac]

Warning: leave this thread alone, a troll is on the loose!

[gallagher430]

I was confused on that 7th round deduction... Since the ref didn't call it a knock down, why would hitting him again deserve a point taken off? Was the ref basically contradicting himself there or what?

[huki]

I had Barrera winning too if you scored round 7 even. Either way, it was a very close match and one of the best fights in the last few years. The idiotic scores made it seem like Marquez dominated and people continue to say that Barrera is finished, even though he put on a great performance. But I give major credit to Marquez also. It was a beautiful match and one of those rare fights where every single punch that was thrown mattered. It's just sad that in the future, people will go to boxrec, see the scorecards, and think it was a dominating win by Marquez against a faded Barrera in a one-sided fight.

[PowerPuncher]

I had Barrera winning when I watched it, only by about a point or 2, I much preffered Barreras work to JMMs

[shelterr]

I had Barrera winning when it first aired, but after rewatching it even if i score round 7 even (which it should have been) the best i can get barrera is a draw. I feel that JMM deserved it by a point. Even though i am a much bigger Barrera fan, Marquez was the more dominant of the two and was able to hurt Barrera badly at times. His shots were also much harder, so with the punch-stats being as close as they were, JMM would have the overall edge.

[Doomas]

I watched it only once, and had JMM wining by 1 point if I remember correctly. Close fight, but when you look at final score cards, even if MAB scored few knockdowns he would still loose..this fight left bad taste in my mouth..lets hope we wont see that kind of scoring in the future...wich I doubt

[LeedsLad]

I had it 114-114, but i counted round 7 as the judges probably did, a 10-8 round for JMM. If i remember correctly, JMM had the best of that round before Barrera hit him with a good shot? Been awhile since i watched it though.

I didnt have much problem with JMM winning, it was a good, close entertaining fight, but the margins on the judges cards were ridiculous.

[Morrissey]

This is rather interesting.

I scored it for JMM, and thought it was a clear victory for him, especially during the 2nd half of the fight, wherein MAB was obviously exhausted and was visibly frustrated with the outcome. JMM was just prepared to pummel him in the closing rounds.

The first few rounds, it was all MAB, but you can see the marked difference as the fight went to the second part. JMM became the aggressor and MAB abandoned his effective jab (do not know the ****in' reason), and his punches seem no crisp in there.

But this fight made me appreciate MAB's skills as a boxer, moreso than JMM. Rounds 2 -4 were a showcase of how to control the fight with your jab and spacing, and he did this against a very skilled technician and counterpuncher in JMM. I really thought, prime for prime, MAB can beat JMM. The fatigue factor really played in this game, though.

[Morrissey]

I am going to watch it later, btw.

[divac]

Originally Posted by Morrissey

This is rather interesting.

I scored it for JMM, and thought it was a clear victory for him, especially during the 2nd half of the fight, wherein MAB was obviously exhausted and was visibly frustrated with the outcome. JMM was just prepared to pummel him in the closing rounds.

The first few rounds, it was all MAB, but you can see the marked difference as the fight went to the second part. JMM became the aggressor and MAB abandoned his effective jab (do not know the ****in' reason), and his punches seem no crisp in there.

But this fight made me appreciate MAB's skills as a boxer, moreso than JMM. Rounds 2 -4 were a showcase of how to control the fight with your jab and spacing, and he did this against a very skilled technician and counterpuncher in JMM. I really thought, prime for prime, MAB can beat JMM. The fatigue factor really played in this game, though.

You fail to factor in JMM's thought process and his instructions form Nacho Beristein......

.....the instructions being to be the aggressor, because to sit back in a jab fest and waiting to counter would more likely result in less meaningful punches and the judges siding with a legend.

The instruction to JMM were to attack and land hard, which he did in most of the rounds.
As a result, during the second half of the fight a beatdown had commenced which was only interfered by the one shot that knocked Marquez down.

.....but make no mistake, Marquez' cleaner and harder blows along with his work to MAB's body, resulted in MAB's slowing down toward the last several rounds!

Dont just let age dictate the thinking of what might have been in their primes, because Marquez is actually older, and he himself is not as quick, fast, or as slick as he used to be!


In a situation like this with Marquez fighting a name and legend like MAB, he has no choice but to take more risks to please the scoring judge.
In a prime for prime matchup, JMM most likely fights from the pocket to set up his counters, and MAB is most likely the puire aggressor all the way through!

Think Morrisey, think!!!!!!!!!

[bhwbj]

I had Barrera winning it when I initially watched it.

[PATSYS]

Originally Posted by divac

Warning: leave this thread alone, a troll is on the loose!

Read the replies and tell me who's the troll now

Care to comment on the round 7 scoring? You do not sound to ecstatic to say anything about it

I was being totally fair in scoring the fight and even giving JMM the benefit of the doubt on rounds 9 and 11.

And in a lot of the rounds, MAB's jab were landing consistently. May not be the hardest punch in the world but could count in scoring.

Lastly, watch their faces at the end of the fight, that alone should tell you who got hit more on the face

[IMG]***********.aolcdn.com/latino_deportes/psd-marquez-barrera1.jpg[/IMG]
And don't even attempt to be funny by thinking JMM might have landed in the body - cause MAB was the more active body puncher of the 2 throughout the fight.

[PATSYS]

Originally Posted by chimba

That doesnt mean anything. We all know that JMM is feather fisted.

Funny I thought it is common knowledge that JMM (being naturally bigger fighter) is the harder hitter of the 2.

[Morrissey]

Originally Posted by divac

You fail to factor in JMM's thought process and his instructions form Nacho Beristein......

.....the instructions being to be the aggressor, because to sit back in a jab fest and waiting to counter would more likely result in less meaningful punches and the judges siding with a legend.

The instruction to JMM were to attack and land hard, which he did in most of the rounds.
As a result, during the second half of the fight a beatdown had commenced which was only interfered by the one shot that knocked Marquez down.

.....but make no mistake, Marquez' cleaner and harder blows along with his work to MAB's body, resulted in MAB's slowing down toward the last several rounds!

Dont just let age dictate the thinking of what might have been in their primes, because Marquez is actually older, and he himself is not as quick, fast, or as slick as he used to be!


In a situation like this with Marquez fighting a name and legend like MAB, he has no choice but to take more risks to please the scoring judge.
In a prime for prime matchup, JMM most likely fights from the pocket to set up his counters, and MAB is most likely the puire aggressor all the way through!

Think Morrisey, think!!!!!!!!!

I know they are both of the same age, or JMM is older of one year as you have mentioned, but make no mistake, MAB has fought a lot of really tough battles and wars, and the wear and tear has accumulated over the years, and one who has seen his game since he began can really notice that.

While I do not discredit JMM's competition, you can perhaps agree with that between the two, JMM has less mileage. Yes, his real age may show but compared to MAB in the same ring that night, he looked like a prime Erik Morales. In reality, JMM has not shown obvious decline as MAB or EM had, or maybe, it is due to his level of competition, which vis-a-vis with his two fellow MExicans, made him appear more as a protected fighter than the one being avoided, that a marked decline can not be clearly observed. He was, and still, the same fighter who had given PAc trouble in their initial encounter. He had slowed a little, maybe, but he was Flash personified when he fought MAB.

That reason, Divac, and admitting he is the superior technician made me choose him over MAB in that fight. It was as clear as picking Pac to slaughter MAB in their coming rematch. Easy. I expected him to outbox and outpunch the aging MAB, and he did.

Now, you can also say that I underrated MAB in that fight that I was actually surprised when he controlled the first few rounds, thoroughly outboxing the highly-regarded boxer in JMM. I didn't expect him to do that, much more dictating the pace of those rounds.

Of course, JMM has a lot to do on why MAB got beaten, i.e., he was more aggressive, had much more harder and cleaner punches, more active, but one can only imagine if that was a prime MAB, whose KO power was more visible, the fight could have been much, much, much (infinite ) closer, and IMO, would have been fairly called a pick' em classic.