boxing
Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > General Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-27-2009, 11:33 AM   #16
pngo
#1Contender
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,759
vCash: 600
Default Re: A Clear Cut Explanation On Why Floyd "DOES" Deserve The Lions Share Against Pacma

lol Just because you think that what you are saying is true, doesn't make it true.

IMO it should be a 50/50, and like 90% of the people think so too.
pngo is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 07-27-2009, 11:35 AM   #17
walk with me
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Miami
Posts: 9,793
vCash: 1000
Default Re: A Clear Cut Explanation On Why Floyd "DOES" Deserve The Lions Share Against Pacma

If your a ****ing idiot dont read the first post and just reply with some corny bull****!
walk with me is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2009, 11:37 AM   #18
tolindoy
UBESTRIDTE MESTER
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,194
vCash: 2217
Default Re: A Clear Cut Explanation On Why Floyd "DOES" Deserve The Lions Share Against Pacma

Quote:
Originally Posted by walk with me View Post
another floyd hater.... who refuses to even acknowledge my most obvious points.
when someone has another opinion then he's a floyd hater? Why make this thread in the first place, if you just want people to acknowledge your post???
tolindoy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2009, 11:37 AM   #19
walk with me
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Miami
Posts: 9,793
vCash: 1000
Default Re: A Clear Cut Explanation On Why Floyd "DOES" Deserve The Lions Share Against Pacma

only bigger fights would be like

haye - wlad, haye - vit... and only in ticket sales cause it would be in a stadium

floyd's ppv sales are > all until PROVEN different


Quote:
Originally Posted by tolindoy View Post
when someone has another opinion then he's a floyd hater? Why make this thread in the first place, if you just want people to acknowledge your post???
its not even about that.... first of all these people arent even reading the first post... which i kindly requested you read before you even post

2nd these people arent even ****ing accepting the obvious... just because they dont like floyd
walk with me is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2009, 11:39 AM   #20
Jeff Young
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,830
vCash: 7241
Default Re: A Clear Cut Explanation On Why Floyd "DOES" Deserve The Lions Share Against Pacma

heres the thing though, floyd is not a mainstream draw....hatton and oscar were the draws.....manny has a large fan base compared to floyd....if pac-floyd happens it should be 52-48 in favor of pac...just like the hatton fight, hatton was the draw, and the champ at the time....he did it because manny is the "man" at the moment not floyd.....everybody wants to fight manny....at most floyd should only get a 50-50 split....

i respect floyd and think he is an amazing talent.....but he couldnt even sell-out for baldomir, and that fight was for the lineal WW title.....I read your post, but under the current circumstances I dont see how floyd could say he deserves the most money....
Jeff Young is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2009, 11:41 AM   #21
walk with me
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Miami
Posts: 9,793
vCash: 1000
Default Re: A Clear Cut Explanation On Why Floyd "DOES" Deserve The Lions Share Against Pacma

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Young View Post
heres the thing though, floyd is not a mainstream draw....hatton and oscar were the draws.....manny has a large fan base compared to floyd....if pac-floyd happens it should be 52-48 in favor of pac...just like the hatton fight, hatton was the draw, and the champ at the time....he did it because manny is the "man" at the moment not floyd.....everybody wants to fight manny....at most floyd should only get a 50-50 split....

i respect floyd and think he is an amazing talent.....but he couldnt even sell-out for baldomir, and that fight was for the lineal WW title.....I read your post, but under the current circumstances I dont see how floyd could say he deserves the most money....
if thats true then why did floyd outsell pacman in both mutual opponents? by substantial amounts

what has pacman DONE to deserve more?
walk with me is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2009, 11:48 AM   #22
Godfather
I put the G in God
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: I bomb atomically
Posts: 206
vCash: 75
Default Re: A Clear Cut Explanation On Why Floyd "DOES" Deserve The Lions Share Against Pacma

That was not an objective post. Floyd left the sport and in almost everyone's eyes Pacquiao is THE man.

Pac is the one people pay to see fight. People pay to see Floyd KO'd.

Pac does not need Mayweather. There are plenty of people for him to fight in the WW and LWW division. Floyd needs Pacquiao more
Godfather is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2009, 11:50 AM   #23
Jeff Young
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,830
vCash: 7241
Default Re: A Clear Cut Explanation On Why Floyd "DOES" Deserve The Lions Share Against Pacma

Quote:
Originally Posted by walk with me View Post
if thats true then why did floyd outsell pacman in both mutual opponents? by substantial amounts

what has pacman DONE to deserve more?
well hatton was undefeated at the time he fought floyd, and wasnt against manny.....oscar is well, oscar de la hoya the all-time cash cow and largest ppv guy of all-time....

pac seems to have more crossover appeal to the mainstream....he is well-known in LA and tons of filipino people in america, along with the country of the phillipines behind him...then man is huge compared to floyd, on the business side of things....

i take nothing away from floyd's accomplishments....
Jeff Young is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2009, 11:59 AM   #24
walk with me
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Miami
Posts: 9,793
vCash: 1000
Default Re: A Clear Cut Explanation On Why Floyd "DOES" Deserve The Lions Share Against Pacma

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfather View Post

1- That was not an objective post. Floyd left the sport and in almost everyone's eyes Pacquiao is THE man.

2- Pac is the one people pay to see fight. People pay to see Floyd KO'd.

3- Pac does not need Mayweather. There are plenty of people for him to fight in the WW and LWW division. Floyd needs Pacquiao more
1- if it wasnt objective about the post, what in the first post was a lie?
2- either way people are still paying... it dont matter
3- how does floyd need pacman?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Young View Post
well hatton was undefeated at the time he fought floyd, and wasnt against manny.....oscar is well, oscar de la hoya the all-time cash cow and largest ppv guy of all-time....

pac seems to have more crossover appeal to the mainstream....he is well-known in LA and tons of filipino people in america, along with the country of the phillipines behind him...then man is huge compared to floyd, on the business side of things....

i take nothing away from floyd's accomplishments....
so like i said before.. until proved wrong floyd is currently the best seller in the sport.... regardless of hatton being undefeated or oscar being oscar (which works more against pacman then for pacman) floyd is still #1 until proven otherwise...

lets not forget floyd did dancing with the stars & wrestlemania.... those are 2 different platforms floyd was showed off on... pacman hasnt shown as much versatility so far
walk with me is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2009, 12:01 PM   #25
konaman
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 3,691
vCash: 1000
Default Re: A Clear Cut Explanation On Why Floyd "DOES" Deserve The Lions Share Against Pacma

Quote:
Originally Posted by walk with me View Post

yawn

another floyd hater.... who refuses to even acknowledge my most obvious points.

Your points consist of:

- Using generic rubbish "He ain't his own boss talk" (that was very creative of you to pull that point straight from Floyd's mouth, bravo) that has no gauge on the situation. If Manny Pacquiao received 100% of his own split, he would still warrant 50% of the purse, he certainly wouldn't be accepting far less just because he is now "his own man" and not giving the other 27% to Arum (this figure could be TOTALLY incorrect for all we know, but i'll assume for now that it is correct).

Is that what you actually think? If Pacquiao wasn't giving Arum a cent, do you think he would accept something like 65/35? Not a chance in hell mate. The only barrier relevant to this point is Bob Arum and Floyd Mayweather's petty battle of ego's.

- You claim that Floyd Mayweather is doing Manny a big favour if this fight comes to be. Your grounds being "he doesn't have to come back to the ring". Thats very insightful, newsflash, Pacquiao could retire tomorrow, he isn't obligated in anyway to fight Floyd Mayweather, other than to repay the fans of boxing with the biggest, most highly demanded available matchup. He could easily fight Cotto, Mosley and JMM.

Both Manny and Floyd are obliged to fight each other by the fans, this applies to both of them, other than that they don't have to do ****. Floyd doesn't need to return to the ring, but he will, because he loves the spotlight and can clearly further his legacy, Manny Pacquaio doesn't need to either, but he will, because he knows his importance in boxing right now and strives to be the best (just like Floyd).

- Floyd is only half the puzzle, the other half is Manny Pacquiao, together its the perfect event/fight, and both guys are clearly at the top of the sport. It practically brands 50/50 on your forehead.

- "Pacman hasn't technically surpassed Floyd", well, i am not sure what you are referring to as technically, because this isn't a set matter. But the clear factor is Pacquiao has come up in weight far more rapidly than Floyd ever dreamed of and beaten Floyd's last two opponents in embarrasingly uncompetitive fashion. Whether a onesided beating of Oscar displaying a total stylistic advantage and winning every second of the fight against a lesser version is a better win or not, recently Manny Pacquiao is the one achieving everything and his position in the sport has risen amazingly fast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by walk with me View Post

edit: word kona? so name a bigger fight?

pacman vs shane > floyd vs shane?
pacman vs cotto > floyd vs cotto?
pacman vs marg > floyd vs marg?
pacman vs jmm > floyd vs jmm? (maybe the only fighter that pac has the edge because of the history)

floyd's fights are still the biggest in boxing
Pacman - JMM is clearly a much more significant fight. Floyd vs Marg is essentially irrelevant and not much of a spectacle after Mosley bodied him.

Pacman vs Mosley/Cotto is on a similar level to Floyd vs Mosley/Cotto, perhaps slightly smaller, particularly in case of Floyd vs Mosley, as there is a lot of history between them in terms of their careers running parallel.

The fact is they are in such similar situations right now in terms of significance, with Manny rapidly on the rise over the last 12 months to become a global phenomenon and representative of the sport, and Floyd coming out of retirement in an attempt to regain his position after being out of the global media for a while; any attempt to claim that either man deserves more than the other is simply ludicrous.
konaman is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2009, 12:04 PM   #26
walk with me
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Miami
Posts: 9,793
vCash: 1000
Default Re: A Clear Cut Explanation On Why Floyd "DOES" Deserve The Lions Share Against Pacma

so pacman deserves more than floyd because he beat 2 guys that floyd beat when they were in better condition?


oh ok... that makes senes
walk with me is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2009, 12:05 PM   #27
Tuno
Journeyman
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 227
vCash: 1000
Default Re: A Clear Cut Explanation On Why Floyd "DOES" Deserve The Lions Share Against Pacma

Quote:
  • The First Major Piece to this puzzle which Floyd has been bringing up so much is, "Manny Pacqiaou Isn't his own boss". What this basically translates to is that when it comes time to strike a deal with Manny Pacqiaou to fight, Floyd will have to deal with a 3rd party (Bob Arum). Already Aside from the fact that Floyd & Arum had a horrible past, this is one BIG ROAD BLOCK. Due to the fact that arum gets 27% of his cut no matter what, it means that floyd will be fighting 2 seperate fights, one on the negotiating table & the other in the ring. Bob Arum is no fool and he knows how much money will be in this bout so as long as he has 27% stake in the fight, he will make sure he gets some of that money and Floyd is just acknowledging the fact that Arum really shouldnt be touching that much of it. And in some way im sure Floyd is looking at it as "I'm Not Letting Arum Touch Any Of My Money, Especially when he isnt doing anything inside of a ring". What I see some of you guys saying is "Every boxer has a promoter, this concept is retarded as hell." Which is partially true but the fact of the matter is that Floyd set his career up basically to "BE THE MAN" at the end of the day. He set up his entire career to fight oscar de la hoya, and when he did he was the one bending over in contractual negotiations. From ring size, to glove size, to EVERYTHING floyd was the one bending over, and when he beat de la hoya at his own game Floyd inheritted the right to become "the man", More on this a bit later.
First of all, let me say that you are not very good at putting together a puzzle, almost none of your pieces fit. Sure Floyd doesn't like Arum, but I am pretty sure most people don't like Floyd when it comes to negotiation either. You are here to make fights and make money, not here to make friends, so do what you have to in order for the fight to happen. Arum is taking money from Pac's share not Floyd, so as long as Floyd got his fair share, he shouldn't worry about what happens to his opponent's purse. Pac can give it all to Arum, to charity, for prostitutes, whatever he wants to do with his money has nothing to do with Floyd.


Quote:
  • The second piece to this puzzle is, Who is truly doing who the favor here? Now obviously many believed Floyd Mayweather would eventually come back out of retirement and that he was only on a short term vacation. But who is to truly say that is a fact? Floyd was retired from the sport of boxing and DOES NOT have to come back to the ring. I can already see some of you guys quoting this section and riddling me with facts about how floyd is supposedly in debt and a bunch of other stuff. But lets be as real as possible for a second, none of us "TRULY" know what kind of financial situation this man is dealing with. On the contrary to the actual reports NONE of us truly know, And on top of that if Floyd really just wants to pickup a quick check he could have fought Andre Berto for the WBC belt or something like that. To even expand on this, When Pacman beat Hatton, what was the topic the next day on sports center? Spoken directly from the mouth of woody paige, Manny Pacqiaou vs Floyd Mayweather. At the end of the day floyd is still the top dog and would be coming out of his position to fight Manny Pacqiaou.
Pac have plenty of fights that can be made without Floyd, and of course Floyd vs. Pac would be the biggest but not just for any one of them, it is biggest for both. While I agree Floyd does not have to come back to the ring, actually nobody does if they choose not to but you can't argue there are tons of question marks regarding Floyd. He has been in welter for how long yet never fought the top fighters there as in Mosley, Cotto, Williams, and previously Margarito. It is true Floyd can pick up a quick check with the likes of Andre Berto, but it definitely wouldn't be a big one. The only time Floyd can sell tickets would be when people believe he have a decent chance in losing. People would watch in hope to see Floyd lose in a good fight, they are never there to see Floyd administer a one sided beating on his opponent although sometimes it end up happening anyway.
Quote:
  • The Third Piece to this puzzle is the fact that no matter how you really spin it A "Floyd Mayweather Jr" Fight is still the fighter that is in the highest demand in the sport. People have been begging to Fight Floyd for years & years and still are. You honestly Cannot Name 4 Hotter Fights than: Floyd Vs Pacman, Floyd Vs Cotto, Floyd Vs Shane, Floyd vs Margarito. These are 4 of the most highly demanded fights in the sport by far and its because of Floyd mayweather. In regards to pacman in connection to floyd, after pacman beat hatton the next logical step was floyd. But for pacman to earn more than floyd doesnt make any sense because pacman is still behind floyd, which leads me to my next point.
Floyd is in demand only depending on who he fights. People will always want to see the bests go at it, they are not there just to watch Floyd a nobody though. I will name 4 fights just as hot if not hotter than the 4 you named: Pac vs. Floyd, Pac vs. Cotto, Pac vs. Mosley, Pac vs. Margarito. These are 4 of the most highly demanded fights in the sport by far and its because of Manny Pacquioa. Pac is ahead of Floyd, he took the bigger challenges and done a better job of it. Move up in weight to fight Hatton vs. Hatton moving up in weight to fight Floyd. DLH is past it for both but Floyd made DLH look better than he should be.
Tuno is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2009, 12:06 PM   #28
Tuno
Journeyman
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 227
vCash: 1000
Default Re: A Clear Cut Explanation On Why Floyd "DOES" Deserve The Lions Share Against Pacma

Quote:
  • The Fourth Piece to this puzzle is the fact that regardless of whether Pacman beat ODLH & Hatton more convincingly (which is partially debateable) Pacman still hasnt technically surpassed Floyd. Pacman is just following if floyd's footsteps and doing things that he already done when the common opponents were at a way higher point, So how would that equate to Floyd earning less money than Pacman? What will make these negotiations interesting is if Pacman Beats Cotto, If pacman does that then he would have done something that Floyd never did and cant really spin it any other way, so that would definitely give Pacman Some Additional Leverage when it comes time to negotiate a fight Between Pacman & Mayweather.
Pac isn't following Floyd's footstep, he smeared it like it was **** under his shoes. Not only did Pac do a more convincing job, he does it while moving up greatly in weight to Hatton's most efficient weight rather than have Hatton move to Pac's most efficient weight like Floyd did. Pac has done many things Floyd never did, like fighting the legendary great mexican fighters. People used DLH and Hatton because it is a common denominator as well as the challenge of Pac moving up in weight, but they are not even close to as great of a fighter as the Morales, Marquez and Barrera. DLH was past it, Hatton is a never been.



Quote:
  • The Fifth Piece is the fact that Floyd honestly doesnt really "NEED" Pacman, or for that matter any of these other guys who are left over. Floyd's Career is already a very accomplished & successful Career that will leave him cemented in the history books as one of the most successful boxers of our era and a 1st ballot hall of famer. Add that up with the fact that he is coming out of retirement to do this fight, he really isnt doing himself any favors aside from the fact that he will get a big check for the fight. Legacy wise he is already fine, even though pacman will certainley ADD to his legacy, his legacy is already fine. What I see some of you saying is "of course floyd needs pacman, he is the p4p #1 guy" but for as long as floyd was around Pacman was behind him in the p4p charts and still hasnt done anything to truly surpass him, Pacman just acquired the title because Floyd retired (after me typing this its a bit clearer to why floyd always says he is still the p4p #1) pacman hasnt truly done anything to surpass floyd in a p4p conversation. If pacman beats cotto we are having a different conversation.
There are tons of questions regarding Floyd. I will agree he would still be a Hall of Famer and he have some accomplishments and his career can be considered successful, but many will call him unproven if he wants to consider himself an ATG. While he has the possible ability of being one of the top ATG, he has never proven it against fighters who can cement his legacy. As you said that Pac would add to his legacy if he wins, THIS is a smaller man we are talking about that can immensely add to Floyd's LEGACY. If Floyd was truly so great then he would be stepping up in weight classes and fighting the best fighters like Pac is trying to do. For Pac, the only fights that can greatly improve his legacy are those in the higher weight classes, can you name some people who are in weight classes lower than him that can do it? This shows Pac is the p4p guy when no one in weight classes under him can be a serious threat while Floyd have a possible threat from Pac who is in a lower weight class. P4P!!!


Quote:
At the end of the day (and this long thread) this is just trying to give you a look inside of why Floyd may deserve the bigger share of the pie. This isnt necessarily what I believe (although the more I type it the more I believe Floyd does deserve the bigger share). One thing I kind of left out is how Floyd always mentions "pacman isnt calling me out, he knows where to find me". When floyd says that what it means (translateted) is that pacman is ready & willing to do whatever he has to for him to step in side the ring with floyd mayweather (including the lesser portion of the negotiations), this is why he is fighting jmm. Jmm was ready to try to make a stake for himself in the history of boxing by beating Floyd Mayweather Jr (whether it means him getting the ****ty end of the deal or not).
Isn't there an offer of 50/50 mentioned? Pac has definitely showed interest, he even preferred to wait til after Floyd vs. Marquez fight before choosing his next opponent til Floyd postponed his fight date.


Quote:
So regardless I'd like to see everyones feedback and thoughts on this topic, I think its pretty interesting and I tried to be as objective as possible and write as clear as possible so everyone reads it through.

Check it out and let me know what you think
Well you got my end of the argument, which makes alot more sense to me. But if you want to disagree that is up to you, I just hope you are not being bias when coming up with your conclusion and instead tried to seek the truth.
Tuno is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2009, 12:07 PM   #29
Powerman55
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,147
vCash: 1000
Default Re: A Clear Cut Explanation On Why Floyd "DOES" Deserve The Lions Share Against Pacma

Good post and well thought out.

But it's not objective. It's from Floyd's perspective and of course Floyd thinks he should get the bigger share.

The fair way would be to list out all the reasons why Pac deserves it. Then the reasons why Floyd deserves it. And then take the 2 sides and make a conclusion.

I say 50/50 is fair. Mayweather will end up getting 27% than Pac more anyway. (due to Arum talking 27% Pac will actually end up with a hell of a lot less than Floyd, which is fair enough as Floyd is his own promoter).
Powerman55 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2009, 12:07 PM   #30
Jeff Young
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,830
vCash: 7241
Default Re: A Clear Cut Explanation On Why Floyd "DOES" Deserve The Lions Share Against Pacma

Quote:
Originally Posted by walk with me View Post
1- if it wasnt objective about the post, what in the first post was a lie?
2- either way people are still paying... it dont matter
3- how does floyd need pacman?



so like i said before.. until proved wrong floyd is currently the best seller in the sport.... regardless of hatton being undefeated or oscar being oscar (which works more against pacman then for pacman) floyd is still #1 until proven otherwise...

lets not forget floyd did dancing with the stars & wrestlemania.... those are 2 different platforms floyd was showed off on... pacman hasnt shown as much versatility so far
i'm a minority and i give floyd much more CREDIT for beating hatton and oscar then i do manny, we will see what the marquez-floyd numbers do.....vs the manny-cotto numbers....that will add more to this debate...
Jeff Young is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > General Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump






All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2015