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Old 08-04-2009, 02:53 PM   #16
jont
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Default Re: Big John Tate

I was under the impression that "The Truth" did this after his career was over and not during his fighting days...I feel that he had the most skills of many of the 80's fighters and he was quick and foot speed.. to me Carl was my favorite fighter after Tim Witherspoon from the 80's...
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Old 08-04-2009, 03:08 PM   #17
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Default Re: Big John Tate

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I was under the impression that "The Truth" did this after his career was over and not during his fighting days...I feel that he had the most skills of many of the 80's fighters and he was quick and foot speed.. to me Carl was my favorite fighter after Tim Witherspoon from the 80's...

Its a shame that Williams never improved on his tendency to get decked with the left hook. It was probably his biggest achiles heel. His jab was among one of the very best in heavyweight history and the power in his right hand was underrated in my opinion. Carl also showed on a few occasions that he could rise off the canvas to get a win every once in a while. In 1985, some experts were raising eye brows in consideration that he might one day end up being Holmes' successor. But then came the Weaver loss, which I believe permanantely devastated him. He chalked up a few halfway decent wins before receiving a second shot at Mike Tyson, but by this time the public's confidence in him as a true world beater was basically torn..
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Old 08-04-2009, 04:34 PM   #18
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Default Re: Big John Tate

Williams always carried those hands low and brought them back low after punching. Then, he'd lift them up. He's there to be hit right after he throws something. Those low hands and bad habits were never going to deal with a Tyson and it's one of the reasons he was such a huge underdog. And there was plenty of money on
Weaver in their bout as well. It just seemed to be something graziano couldn't ever get him to eliminate.
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Old 08-04-2009, 04:50 PM   #19
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Default Re: Big John Tate

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Williams always carried those hands low and brought them back low after punching. Then, he'd lift them up. He's there to be hit right after he throws something. Those low hands and bad habits were never going to deal with a Tyson and it's one of the reasons he was such a huge underdog. And there was plenty of money on
Weaver in their bout as well. It just seemed to be something graziano couldn't ever get him to eliminate.
He did have sort of a lazy defense if I recall. I even saw the journeyman Jerry Jones deck him once or twice many years ago - though Truth was basically past it. A better defense and less tendency to get tagged with the left, would have helped Williams to raise a notch above the rest of the lost generation.
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Old 11-13-2009, 05:31 PM   #20
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Default Re: Big John Tate

Tate had good solid mechanics, though very slow and methodical.He would have lost to Holmes,but would have given him a good fight.
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Old 12-11-2009, 05:47 PM   #21
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Default Re: Big John Tate

Tate was a good fighter... a man that would probably beat any of today's champions... though slow and lethargic looking, he was in better shape than almost all of the current HW kings.
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Old 12-11-2009, 06:23 PM   #22
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Default Re: Big John Tate

To me, John Tate will always epitomize, "The thrill of victory and the ecstasy of defeat". He was an Olympic medalist and heavyweight champion who met his end in drugs and odd jobs, eventually dieing in a car accident after supposedly using a fair amount of cocaine.

He was a big man who blindly (and illiterately) followed trainer, Ace Miller, from the Ams all the way to the Pros. Tate had a very basic style:
1. establish jab
2. use ring generalship
3. incorporate combination/power punches off the jab
4. repeat steps 1 thru 3.
He had a fair amount of strength to employ in the ring (which helped ring control), and he used that to his advantage. Also, with that he had great conditioning, too bad it didn't do anything for his chin.

It's sad to see the fall he took after losing to Weaver. It almost seemed like getting decked in dramatic fashion was his signature. Case in point, he was floored by Teofilo Stevenson in the Olympics, dramatically floored in the 15th round of his first title defense, and unusually decked (back turned) while running away from Trevor Berbick in his comeback.
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Old 12-12-2009, 07:17 AM   #23
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He also had a brutal ko defeat to Chapman as an amateur as well. Between that and the Stevenson and throw in the brutal loss to Weaver, it was game over. # brutal ko's is tough to overcome and the guy might have been on the canvas for about 12 minutes or more in those fights.
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Old 12-12-2009, 08:46 AM   #24
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Default Re: Big John Tate

John was a very good heavyweight , the larger of the heavyweights around at the time at around 245lb solid in his prime he was a good couter puncher who had decent power yet never had great self beleif. Tate had it in the bag against Mike, but the more motivated Weaver did the unthinkable in virtually the final seconds of a fight that was Tates. Carl Williams was in many peoples opinion the best heavyweight by way of natural ability to never have won a portion of the crown.. Tate had the 80's syndrome like many at the time, he was often kind of lazy in his approach and loved to dabble with narcotics.. Johns Career slid badly and his whole life went south after he lost his most precious posession , that belt. He never fulfilled his potential and felt he had let many around him down, I almost cried when i heard he had died at the wheel of his truck almost pennyless.. following some embarrasin losses including one in London where he lost on points to Noel Quarless weighing over 20 stone.. 280lbs.. John was known since the amateurs as having a weak chin, his KO stoppage at the hands of Teofilio stevenson exposed this years before the Weaver fight but John had the strength to win a title at a time when the division did have some sporadic talent... Berbick beat a broken heavyweight who was lost, and Trevor himself had a sad demise.. Tate , Berbick , Williams had more about them that most of the current challengers today.. but either wasted it or ran into the formidable Larry Holmes..
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Old 12-12-2009, 10:44 AM   #25
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I think of John Tate and more than anything else..even more than the Weaver ko and more than his decent enough wins..I think of that magnificent right hand that Teofilo Stevenson hit him with in the 1st round of their amateur bout..and how Tate took a drunken walk over to the rope and slid to the canvas to be counted out..on of the most spectacular ko's I've ever seen..and I don't care if it was an amateur bout..Stevenson had sensational power.
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Old 12-12-2009, 05:08 PM   #26
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Default Re: Big John Tate

Remember his rid**** bowe type eating habits in training? He was notorious for eating full packages of oreo cookies at 1 sitting. Sure is a shame the way his career ended up and where all that money disappeared.
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Old 12-12-2009, 10:05 PM   #27
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Default Re: Big John Tate

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Remember his rid**** bowe type eating habits in training? He was notorious for eating full packages of oreo cookies at 1 sitting. Sure is a shame the way his career ended up and where all that money disappeared.
whoa there...
Tate certainly didn't have rid**** bowe's eating habits. I don't think anybody could eat the way rid**** could (except for James Toney). Tate's problems were mostly drug related. And as somebody mentioned earlier, he had pretty bad advisors/trainers like Ace Miller.
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Old 12-12-2009, 10:14 PM   #28
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Default Re: Big John Tate

Big John Tate came back fROM A 1ST RD ko BY TEOFILO STEVENSON IN THE OLYmPICS AND TURNED OUT TO BE A TALENTED PRO, his had wins over Knoetzee, Bobick and was on his way to shutting out Mike Weaver but got caught by a terrific right hand followed by a hook and John never recovered, his ko loss to Berbick was a case of Big John getting ready to throw up in the ring and Berbick chasing him but the damage was done in the Weaver fight and this was a much improved Weaver than the 18-9 club fighter who gave Larry Holmes quite a scare.....Big John got hurt that night with Weaver in more ways than 1
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Old 12-14-2009, 10:59 AM   #29
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Default Re: Big John Tate

It's kind of odd but I always saw Tate as the ultimate alphabet champ. I'm not saying he was the best p4p or head-to-head, but he epitomizes the boxer who hits the highest highs and the lowest lows. Along side men like Leon Spinks, Greg Page, Michael Dokes, and Pinklon Thomas there is a humble big man that shared their pain and inadvertantly shared his highs and lows with the public. To this day we continue to hear about Tate who was a former illiterate fieldworker that became the next world champ, but fell down the rabbit hole that is the scary world of hard drugs.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:30 PM   #30
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Default Re: Big John Tate

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What's the opinion of him?

Pretty good fighter, I'm watching some of his fights right now and he's impressing me. He was beating Weaver who is no slouch until getting caught in the last round, looks like he never recovered after that tough loss. What happened against Berbick?
He was a very good fighter in a very brief span of time.Unfortuantely, he had one of the worst losses, if not the worse, of any promising fighter, in his hometown nonetheless.Even if Tate beat Weaver, I think down the line a Dokes, or Page would've beaten him,though maybe he could have taken ****ey if he dragged him into deep water.
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