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View Poll Results: Lewis vs Frazier who wins?
Lewis 66 69.47%
Frazier 29 30.53%
Voters: 95. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-10-2007, 06:09 PM   #16
Sweet Science
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Joe Frazier

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Originally Posted by Vanboxingfan
You need to understand the difference between winning a battle and winning a war. Tyson may have won the first round, but he was hurt and Lewis set the tone for the fight..that much surely must be obvious. And it wasn't Lewis complaining that he was hurt in between rounds it was Tyson.
You're the one who brought the 1st round up and how Lewis supposedly won it. Now you say "Tyson may of won the 1st round but Lewis won the war" Everyone knows Lewis won the fight.

You need to understand that Lewis beat a shot Tyson and that has no bearing on how he'd handle a prime Frazier. Frazier wouldn't be complaining that he was hurt between rounds neither would prime Tyson.
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Old 09-10-2007, 06:13 PM   #17
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Joe Frazier

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Originally Posted by mr. magoo
Frazier did an excellent job of breaking down boxer type fighters like Ali, Quarry and Ellis. He had a tremendous amount of upper body movement and handspeed for a heavyweight, as well as devastating power in both hands ( but particularly the left ). A 1969-1973 Frazier would have stood a chance against any all time great.

The primary difference between Lewis and some of the boxers that Frazier actually faced, is that unlike Quarry, Ali and Ellis, Lewis had the power to make Frazier respect him, and even knock him out. There is an old boxing adage that a smaller fighter always needs to work harder than the bigger guy to win. Frazier would have to work very hard to beat Lennox Lewis, and I'm not sure if he would last as many rounds as it would take to wear Lennox down. IF he were to land the right punch flush at the right time, he might pull off a surprise knockout, but we can't make fantasy fight predictions on the assumption of a timely punch.
Devastaing power in both hands? Who did Frazier ko with his right?
Frazier had 5 fights with two great fighters result W1 L 4,I like Lewis in this one and by late ko.
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Old 09-10-2007, 06:23 PM   #18
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Joe Frazier

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Originally Posted by Sweet Science
It's not that big an if. After all, fantasy fight predictions are ultimatley all about the "if's". The punch that ended it would be very real for Lewis:

Think of a round, hard baseball connecting with the fibrous heart of an ash bat. Think of the ball’s flesh sinking into itself for the barest instant, the bat yielding, the fibers in the wood, the same fibers that kept the tree erect in winds for twenty or thirty seasons, pulling apart and then returning the force of the ball. Think of the solid sweetness, the ultimate surprise of the forces exchanging and releasing, the simplicity of it after all, and the long arc of the ball speeding away.

Think of Frazier's left fist, 13 inches around, and the force traveling up his arm, the shoulder spreading and gaping with muscle, the twist of his torso as the power and energy transferred itself to his body, and the thrust of Lewis’s head going away from the fist as fast as his muscles allowed. Think of a strand of saliva escaping from Lewis's mouth, the silver glimmer of it as it reflected cigarette smoke and lights and camera flashes, its liquid pull falling to the canvas, his mouthpiece, for the period of one breath, coming loose in his mouth and readjusting to his bite as the pain and surprise of the punch registered in his brain. Then think of Lewis picking himself up from the canvas, wondering what all those people are doing in the ring with him. Why Larry merchant is talking to Joe Frazier who is flanked by numerous well wishers along with a smiling Don King hovering in the background.

It's all very possible. Would it really be so much of a surprise? People underestimate Frazier these days.
A very descriptive and eloquent description there Sweet, just a shame that IMO you describe a scenario that I can't see unfolding. Lewis had trouble with straight right hand punchers, not left hookers, although to be fair Briggs did trouble him with the left hook. The 2 punches that dropped him though were right hands thrown over the top of his guard and ones where he did not see coming (McCall) or was already on his way from previous punches and fatigue (Rahman). Lewis will fight Frazier cautiously IMO and wear him down ala Tyson. One of Manny Steward's specialities if you like is to block the left hook with the right arm - this was the tactic employed by Tommy Hearns against Cuevas for example and Frazier is in a similar position to Cuevas height and reach wise vs Lewis.

We spoke before about how sometimes Lewis was a little too cautious for his own good. I think it would be a good tactic against Frazier though and I see the most likely outcome being a long, relatively boring fight where Frazier is dominated on the outside by Lewis and eventually stopped. When Frazier comes into punching range Lewis will either tie him up and lean on him or throw the right uppercut, a punch that Frazier will not want to take flush. Lewis's power may make Frazier tentative ala Tua and if that happens it's only a matter of time before Lewis wins. Frazier's only hope at this time would be for Lewis to get sloppy and against a fighter of Frazier's quality Lewis would be all business.
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Old 09-10-2007, 06:25 PM   #19
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Joe Frazier

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Originally Posted by Sweet Science
You're the one who brought the 1st round up and how Lewis supposedly won it. Now you say "Tyson may of won the 1st round but Lewis won the war" Everyone knows Lewis won the fight.

You need to understand that Lewis beat a shot Tyson and that has no bearing on how he'd handle a prime Frazier. Frazier wouldn't be complaining that he was hurt between rounds neither would prime Tyson.
They would complain if they actually were hurt...do you think being prime somehow reduces your pain threshold.. and yes I stand by that strategy as being very effective against either fight, prime or otherwise. Lewis manhandle Tyson the way he's never been manhandled in his career. Here are some comments from Tyson himself after the fight. Now I realize after a loss a fighter might be fairly dejected, but I certainly don't recall Lewis ever making these kinds of comments.


There's no way I could ever beat him,'' Tyson said. "He's just too big and too strong.''

Lewis, the IBF and WBC champion, had vowed to beat Tyson to restore order to the heavyweight division. He pounded him with jabs from the first round on, keeping Tyson away and out of range. When Tyson did get close, Lewis hit him with a right uppercut or an overhand right.
"I wanted to prove I was the best fighter in the world,'' Lewis said. "Nobody gets away from my jab.''
There's no way I could ever beat him. He's just too big and too strong. Mike Tyson
Tyson certainly didn't. He was exposed as a fighter with limited skills who kept trying to throw punches at the champion but connected only occasionally. Tyson kept trying to rush in and land a big punch, but he never hurt Lewis with any of them.
The sight of Tyson being so thoroughly dominated was almost as shocking as his behavior afterwards, when he tenderly wiped the blood off of Lewis' cheek as the two answered questions.
"He's a magnificent, a prolific fighter, and he should continue fighting,'' Tyson said.
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Old 09-10-2007, 06:29 PM   #20
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Joe Frazier

Devastaing power in both hands? Who did Frazier ko with his right?
Frazier had 5 fights with two great fighters result W1 L 4,I like Lewis in this one and by late ko.
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Old 09-10-2007, 06:30 PM   #21
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Joe Frazier

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Science
You're the one who brought the 1st round up and how Lewis supposedly won it. Now you say "Tyson may of won the 1st round but Lewis won the war" Everyone knows Lewis won the fight.

You need to understand that Lewis beat a shot Tyson and that has no bearing on how he'd handle a prime Frazier. Frazier wouldn't be complaining that he was hurt between rounds neither would prime Tyson.
Show me the quote where I said Lewis won the first round. I said he set the tone for the fight and he hurt Tyson with upper cuts..both of those comments are bang on. And to me, there are somethings bigger issues than winning a round when you're in a battle. That's the same damn argument VK fans use to claim Klitschko actually beat Lewis..(he was ahead on the score card..big deal)
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Old 09-10-2007, 06:41 PM   #22
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Joe Frazier

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Originally Posted by Vanboxingfan
Show me the quote where I said Lewis won the first round. I said he set the tone for the fight and he hurt Tyson with upper cuts..both of those comments are bang on. And to me, there are somethings bigger issues than winning a round when you're in a battle. That's the same damn argument VK fans use to claim Klitschko actually beat Lewis..(he was ahead on the score card..big deal)
I said Tyson had a good 1st round against Lewis. Your reply was "good 1st round?" suggesting it wasn't.

I'm not a VK fan. Lewis's victory over a shot Tyson has no bearing on how '71 Frazier would do against Lewis.

Thats like saying Ali lost to Berbick, so Hasim Rahman would handle Ali easy.
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Old 09-10-2007, 06:45 PM   #23
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Joe Frazier

Frazier by KO around 8th or 9th rd.
Joe forces Lewis to do what he doesnt want to which is stand and fight.
Frazier has too much heart & determination for a guy like Lewis who doesnt have anywhere near the fighting spirit like Frazier.
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Old 09-10-2007, 06:47 PM   #24
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Joe Frazier

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Originally Posted by robert ungurean
Frazier by KO around 8th or 9th rd.
Joe forces Lewis to do what he doesnt want to which is stand and fight.
Frazier has too much heart & determination for a guy like Lewis who doesnt have anywhere near the fighting spirit like Frazier.
Thank you. Another voice of reason, someone who recognises the calibre of Frazier.

I was getting lonely in here.
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Old 09-10-2007, 07:15 PM   #25
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Joe Frazier

Frazier was too much of a warrior I think. Lewis would have a great chance of bombing him out early, but he would probably be hesitant as he was when he fought short punchers (Tyson, Tua) and try to dominate using the jab. Frazier was impossible to keep on the outside using a jab. I see him being able to survive early and work on Lewis until a late KO.
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Old 09-10-2007, 07:23 PM   #26
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Joe Frazier

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Originally Posted by Sweet Science
I said Tyson had a good 1st round against Lewis. Your reply was "good 1st round?" suggesting it wasn't.

I'm not a VK fan. Lewis's victory over a shot Tyson has no bearing on how '71 Frazier would do against Lewis.
What I was suggesting, and still am, is that regardless of what the scorecard said, Lewis had a better round than Tyson. He set the tone for the rest of the fight and he hurt Tyson on the inside. Those were important objectives to have met to allow him to eventually get the outcome he did. What is so hard to understand about that?

As for comparing a shot Tyson to Frazier, I do think they are some similarities to consider. They are roughly the same height and have a similar style, and Tyson, while shot, was bigger and stronger than Frazier.

And what I am suggesting with the strategy Lewis used, namely his size, reach, strength and power advantages would be effective against Frazier, just as it was against Tyson and Tua.

Yes, a prime Frazier would bring more to the table than a shot Tyson, but I think the outcome would be similar. What Lewis did against Tyson was damn near perfect from a strategic perspective.
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Old 09-10-2007, 07:26 PM   #27
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Joe Frazier

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Originally Posted by Sweet Science
Tyson won the 1st round he was agressive, came forward & caught Lewis with a couple of strong left hooks. Tyson did enough to win the 1st round but lost the rest. You need to watch the 1st round again.

This is absolutley accurate. I consider the 1st a cracking round for Tyson, he looked good. Those two uppercuts sure did hurt him though.

I pick Lewis to beat Frazier, quite convincingly.
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Old 09-10-2007, 07:49 PM   #28
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Joe Frazier

Lewis would be winning the beginning of the fight, but frazier would start to came on in the mid rounds. Lewis would tire out from all the body shots he would be getting. Frazier would outwork Lewis from start to finish and then cap it off by a late round ko via devastating left hook. Lewis may be fast for his size, but that doesn't mean he's fast compared to average size, and Frazier would be able to close the gap. Lewis to win would have to be aggressive like Foreman was. Lewis would be too passive and that would be his downfall.

Joe Frazier KO 12 Lennox Lewis
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Old 09-10-2007, 08:04 PM   #29
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Joe Frazier

Lewis is just too damn big. 6'5" 240lbs vs 5'11" 205lbs spells goodnight for Joe nine times out of ten. If Lennox was a stiff it would be a different story but let's face it, Lewis was no stiff. He was a very big man with good skills and a punch to compliment those skills. Joe would look like a middleweight next to him. Lennox would be aware of the fact that Joe was a slow starter and open up early on him. A few monster right hands and uppercuts and Joe would hit the canvas. His tremendous heart and courage would force him to keep getting up but the ref would end up stopping it for his own good. You have 2 very good HW's going at it but one of them is a hell of a lot bigger and carries a wallop in either hand. Lewis TKO around the 5th or 6th.
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Old 09-10-2007, 08:18 PM   #30
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Joe Frazier

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert ungurean
Joe forces Lewis to do what he doesnt want to which is stand and fight.
Frazier has too much heart & determination for a guy like Lewis who doesnt have anywhere near the fighting spirit like Frazier.
What moment of Lewis' career showed to you that he didn't have "near" the fighting spirit of Frazier?

He never even came close to quitting or backing down and didn't hesistate to get back in the ring with the guys who knocked him out. His heart cannot be questioned. Maybe it's not as proven as Frazier's is, but there is absolutely no reason to say "it's not anywhere near Frazier's".
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