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View Poll Results: Lewis vs Frazier who wins?
Lewis 66 69.47%
Frazier 29 30.53%
Voters: 95. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-10-2007, 08:23 PM   #31
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Joe Frazier

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Originally Posted by Sweet Science
I was getting lonely in here.
You're lonely in here because you have an unrealistic, idealistic view of a fighter instead of looking at said fighter in an objective manner. Moreover, you completely ignore the styles of both fighters in question and ignore the results of fights where the opponents of Lewis were somewhat similar (Tyson and Tua).

Styles make fights. It's an old axiom and a true one. Another one is that generally, a long armed puncher beats a short armed puncher. And finally, where you have 2 guys of roughly equal talent and skill, the bigger guy usually will win.

Frazier can knock Lewis the **** out but only if Lewis takes Frazier lightly. Realistically, what is the chance of that happening? Lewis is far more likely to get knocked out by a Cleveland Williams or Earnie Shavers, guys he does not consider that highly, rather than a dangerous foe like Frazier.
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Old 09-10-2007, 09:15 PM   #32
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Joe Frazier

I like Lewis overall to win but lets not overlook Fraziers hook, I see Lennox being cafefull and boxing but standing to let Joe feel his power, Lennox feels joes hook and decides to box and use his reach but if the fight goes past 5 rounds look for Joes stamina to be a factor. Lennox sd 15
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Old 09-10-2007, 10:29 PM   #33
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Joe Frazier

Lewis wins easy. He had the equal of Foreman's right hand and uppercut, except he was more skilled and had even faster hands. Fraizer has a chance early, but he has to get past Leiws' jab, and land a real chin checker before he's taken out early.

Lewis via TKo inside 5.
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Old 09-10-2007, 10:32 PM   #34
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Joe Frazier

Lewis was good at avoiding left hooks. He did a pretty good job at avoiding Tua's.

Lewis by KO
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Old 09-10-2007, 11:05 PM   #35
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Joe Frazier

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Originally Posted by mcvey
Devastaing power in both hands? Who did Frazier ko with his right?
Frazier had 5 fights with two great fighters result W1 L 4,I like Lewis in this one and by late ko.
You obviously didn't read my whole post,

I clearly favoured Lewis in this matchup, but merely listed some of Frazier's qualities.

A bit of advice for the future : OR
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Old 09-11-2007, 04:08 AM   #36
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Joe Frazier

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Originally Posted by mr. magoo
You obviously didn't read my whole post,

I clearly favoured Lewis in this matchup, but merely listed some of Frazier's qualities.

A bit of advice for the future : OR
I'll agree with McVey on the power front, the Frazier right hand generated anything but devastating power and was impotent when compared to the left. It was once famously uttered that Frazier only used his right hand to wave bye, bye, and pick his nose. Highly exaggerated but the general point comes thru.
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Old 09-11-2007, 04:40 AM   #37
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Joe Frazier

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


Ps: Lewis, by close decision. Or late stoppage.
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Old 09-11-2007, 04:58 AM   #38
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Joe Frazier

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger
You're lonely in here because you have an unrealistic, idealistic view of a fighter instead of looking at said fighter in an objective manner. Moreover, you completely ignore the styles of both fighters in question and ignore the results of fights where the opponents of Lewis were somewhat similar (Tyson and Tua).

Styles make fights. It's an old axiom and a true one. Another one is that generally, a long armed puncher beats a short armed puncher. And finally, where you have 2 guys of roughly equal talent and skill, the bigger guy usually will win.

Frazier can knock Lewis the **** out but only if Lewis takes Frazier lightly. Realistically, what is the chance of that happening? Lewis is far more likely to get knocked out by a Cleveland Williams or Earnie Shavers, guys he does not consider that highly, rather than a dangerous foe like Frazier.
Yes styles make fights and on paper the style of Frazier would suit Lewis. But if that was the case you could bet on every fight (judging by who would win on paper) and make a mint. So in fact styles don't always determine the outcome of fights. I am not ignoring the styles of both fighters or the results in fights where the opponents of Lewis (Tyson Tua) were similar. All I am saying is that people are grossly underestimating Frazier by likening him to a shot Mike Tyson. Tua may have a similar style to Frazier but he does not reside in the same ball park as Frazier when it comes to his overall calibre.

As for your maxim: that generally, a long armed puncher beats a short armed puncher. This is true in most cases but men of Frazier's quality and resolve can overcome such disadvantages like he did against Ali in FOTC. Ali was also the bigger guy and yet he didn't win. Now fair enough Ali does not have anywhere near the power of Lennox Lewis but this does not mean that Lewis's victory is a foregone conclusion. Frazier is often unfairly summed up and measured by his losses to Foreman. This is an injustice to Joe as most boxers in history would have been blown out by '73 Foreman.

Frazier was very good at evading the jab. Heck in '71 he did an admirable job of evading arguably one of the best jabs in history. The jab would be key for Lewis, he would use it to try and soften Joe up and break him down as well as to keep Joe at bay. Frazier's constant pressure would not be denied. I don't believe Lewis would be anywhere near as successful with his jab against Frazier compared to how it was against a shot Tyson or Tua. Tua didn't have an effective defence and was slower than Frazier. Frazier's bobbing and weaving would be effective against the jab of Lewis and when he made Lewis miss he WOULD catch him with his left hook. I've explained in great detail in my earlier post exactly what I think Joe's final left hook would do to Lewis.

Now I don't disregard your opinion on this. You have a plausable and intelligent view. I just don't happen to agree with it. I read all posts carefully and reply in a befitting manner.

Last edited by Sweet Science; 09-11-2007 at 05:46 AM.
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Old 09-11-2007, 05:55 AM   #39
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Joe Frazier

I picked Lewis, but I feel that Frazier has a decent chance of an upset.

Physically, Frazier is outmatched. Lewis is a lot bigger and has more options at his disposal. Frazier though, had that indomitable courage and never-say-die attitude that made him so difficult to beat.
I don't see a blowout and I see Frazier having his moments for sure. Nobody outside George Foreman (imo) has the capacity to blow out Frazier.

This will in all likelihood be a hard-fought fight. We must be realistic about Lewis here. He was a tremendous fighter, but it's not like he just waded in there and destroyed people left and right. There were quite a few fights where he looked fairly ordinary and his vaunted power just didn't crack his opponent's chin.

If you have a good chin, apply relentless pressure and can punch, then you're a handful for just about anyone. Frazier may just be the best pressure fighter in history at heavyweight.

Still, at the end of the day I think Lewis would previal, mainly because he has more options at his disposal. but it won't be easy.
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Old 09-11-2007, 05:57 AM   #40
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Joe Frazier

Quote:
Originally Posted by Executioner
Lewis was good at avoiding left hooks. He did a pretty good job at avoiding Tua's.

Lewis by KO
Dont think Tua threw that many ,after sampling a couple of right hands and eating some jabs ,it was him concentrating on avoiding more of them .
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Old 09-11-2007, 05:59 AM   #41
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Joe Frazier

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Science
Yes styles make fights and on paper the style of Frazier would suit Lewis. But if that was the case you could bet on every fight (judging by who would win on paper) and make a mint. So in fact styles don't always determine the outcome of fights. I am not ignoring the styles of both fighters or the results in fights where the opponents of Lewis (Tyson Tua) were similar. All I am saying is that people are grossly underestimating Frazier by likening him to a shot Mike Tyson. Tua may have a similar style to Frazier but he does not reside in the same ball park as Frazier when it comes to his overall calibre.

As for your maxim: that generally, a long armed puncher beats a short armed puncher. This is true in most cases but men of Frazier's quality and resolve can overcome such disadvantages like he did against Ali in FOTC. Ali was also the bigger guy and yet he didn't win. Now fair enough Ali does not have anywhere near the power of Lennox Lewis but this does not mean that Lewis's victory is a foregone conclusion. Frazier is often unfairly summed up and measured by his losses to Foreman. This is an injustice to Joe as most boxers in history would have been blown out by '73 Foreman.

Frazier was very good at evading the jab. Heck in '71 he did an admirable job of evading arguably one of the best jabs in history. The jab would be key for Lewis, he would use it to try and soften Joe up and break him down as well as to keep Joe at bay. Frazier's constant pressure would not be denied. I don't believe Lewis would be anywhere near as successful with his jab against Frazier compared to how it was against a shot Tyson or Tua. Tua didn't have an effective defence and was slower than Frazier. Frazier's bobbing and weaving would be effective against the jab of Lewis and when he made Lewis miss he WOULD catch him with his left hook. I've explained in great detail in my earlier post exactly what I think Joe's final left hook would do to Lewis.

Now I don't disregard your opinion on this. You have a plausable and intelligent view. I just don't happen to agree with it. I read all posts carefully and reply in a befitting manner.
Alis quoted opinion was that Frazier was easy to hit with the jab,and looking at his face after their fights I would agree.
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Old 09-11-2007, 06:07 AM   #42
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Joe Frazier

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcvey
Alis quoted opinion was that Frazier was easy to hit with the jab,and looking at his face after their fights I would agree.
I'm a big Ali fan, but I remember watching FOTC on numerous occasions and always being surprised by how many jabs Frazier was able to make Ali miss with. Ali was normally very accurate with the jab but Frazier did make him miss a hell of a lot.
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Old 09-11-2007, 07:01 AM   #43
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Joe Frazier

Quote:
Originally Posted by fists of fury
I picked Lewis, but I feel that Frazier has a decent chance of an upset.

Physically, Frazier is outmatched. Lewis is a lot bigger and has more options at his disposal. Frazier though, had that indomitable courage and never-say-die attitude that made him so difficult to beat.
I don't see a blowout and I see Frazier having his moments for sure. Nobody outside George Foreman (imo) has the capacity to blow out Frazier.

This will in all likelihood be a hard-fought fight. We must be realistic about Lewis here. He was a tremendous fighter, but it's not like he just waded in there and destroyed people left and right. There were quite a few fights where he looked fairly ordinary and his vaunted power just didn't crack his opponent's chin.

If you have a good chin, apply relentless pressure and can punch, then you're a handful for just about anyone. Frazier may just be the best pressure fighter in history at heavyweight.

Still, at the end of the day I think Lewis would previal, mainly because he has more options at his disposal. but it won't be easy.
Fists of Fury that is an excellent post. Despite the fact you predict Lewis would win, I respect your opinion. As you still give Frazier his due and understand how things could be different. The point you make about nobody outside of Foreman being able to blow out Frazier is a very valid point and one I happen to totally agree with.

You recognise the advantages and limitations of both fighters very well.
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Old 09-11-2007, 07:33 AM   #44
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Joe Frazier

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcvey
Alis quoted opinion was that Frazier was easy to hit with the jab,and looking at his face after their fights I would agree.
The thing is, he made Ali miss a lot of times, but Ali also got through plenty of times. Especially in the first five rounds. If those were Lewis right hands instead of Ali right hands, things look bad for Joe.
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Old 09-11-2007, 10:08 AM   #45
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Joe Frazier

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Science
Fists of Fury that is an excellent post. Despite the fact you predict Lewis would win, I respect your opinion. As you still give Frazier his due and understand how things could be different. The point you make about nobody outside of Foreman being able to blow out Frazier is a very valid point and one I happen to totally agree with.

You recognise the advantages and limitations of both fighters very well.


We are talking about ATG's here after all. Nobody is an easy fight at this level.
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