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View Poll Results: Where does Marciano rank all-time amongst hws?
The Greatest 6 9.68%
Top 5 21 33.87%
Top 10 22 35.48%
Outside the top 10 13 20.97%
Voters: 62. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-11-2007, 01:53 PM   #31
Luigi1985
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Default Re: Where does Marciano rank all-time amongst the hws?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxmomer
"Show me a fighter whose undefeated and I'll show you a fighter who hasn't fought anybody." --Whitey Bimstein, legendary boxing trainer.

Undefeated in one of the heavyweights weakest eras. Plus it could be argued he was given a gift decision in one of his fights. If he had one loss on he record he wouldn't break anybody's top ten.

Bullshit post. It wasn´t one of the weakest eras. Johnson´s era wins that title by a mile, the 80s for example were also much weaker with all that fat and drugged up HW´s. Marciano wasn´t undefeated because he fought in a weak era, he was undefeated because he was always in top shape and always very consistent. And he retired at the right time when he noticed that his skills got worse ( and without any real challenge). Btw, if he wouldn´t have got a point detucted because of a questionable low-blow, he would have won the 1st LaStarza-fight by UD. Look at all the great fighters and how many strange decisions they got ( Ali, Holmes, etc.), Marciano always won without the help of the judges...
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Old 09-11-2007, 02:15 PM   #32
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Default Re: Where does Marciano rank all-time amongst the hws?

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Originally Posted by Tubbs' manboobs
Marciano got started late and was really excelling at the subtleties of boxing by the time of his retirement. He became harder to hit and was really getting better at the time he stopped boxing. His back (like Klitschko now) was the problem. He was having major trouble and Marciano was used to training like a demon. His back prevented this from happening any longer. Marciano would never go into training half assed - even if he was fighting someone not highly regarded. Plus, there were no great challengers that could have brought in big money. If someone like Liston had been the top contender maybe Marciano fights one more time. The Rock loved money probably more than anything. Patterson would not have been much of a fight.

Yeah, I know why he retired. The main problem was IMO, that there wasn“t a real challenge. If there would have been a young, unbeaten fighter with a 30-0-0 (26 KO“s) record, Marciano would have fought him, even when he wasn“t at his best. But the too young, for a puncher tailor-made and shaky Patterson wasn“t surely a challenge. Other fighters like Hurricane Jackson, Valdes, etc. weren“t also real challenges for him...
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Old 09-11-2007, 02:20 PM   #33
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Default Re: Where does Marciano rank all-time amongst the hws?

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Originally Posted by Sweet Science
I hope you're joking.

Otherwise you're not called Mr Magoo for nothing.
I hope your joking with Tyson at #5.

Last edited by Guru_Too_You; 06-12-2006 at 03:11 PM.
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Old 09-11-2007, 03:48 PM   #34
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Default Re: Where does Marciano rank all-time amongst the hws?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxmomer
If he had one loss on he record he wouldn't break anybody's top ten.
If he had one loss on his record his record would be worse so of course he would rank lower.

But you see he didn't.
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Old 09-11-2007, 03:57 PM   #35
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Default Re: Where does Marciano rank all-time amongst the hws?

Marciano still be in the top ten if he lost 1 or 2 bouts.

First off
He domation his era. Only Joe Louis, John L Sullivan, Rocky Marciano, Ali(In the 60's) and perhaps Tyson has that claim. That only should make him in consider for a top ten rank.

2nd, he beat the best of his era. Only a few did that, Louis, Ali, and thats about it. Marciano left no loose ends like Dempsey or Sullivan or even Patterson did. There was no Harry Wills, or Peter Jackson's or Eddie Machens or Follys waiting for nearly 5 or 7 years for there title shots(And sadly most didnt get em) Marciano fought the best men and gave the best number 1 ranking contenders there shots.

Other thing is 6 title fights is a LOT for heavyweights, Most champs major what?? 5 or 6??

Dempsey made 5
Fraizer 4
Bowe 1 I belive
Foreman 3
Corbett 1
Fitz 0
Johnson 6
Between Tunney up to Braddock, 5 successful title defenses between them.

I mean in regards to title defenses Marciano is in the good right??
I mean only Ali, Louis and Tommy Burns made it into double dignits.
That bad at all.

And this is just looking at if Marciano lost a fight.
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Old 09-11-2007, 04:02 PM   #36
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Default Re: Where does Marciano rank all-time amongst the hws?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dempsey1238
I mean in regards to title defenses Marciano is in the good right??
I mean only Ali, Louis and Tommy Burns made it into double dignits.
That bad at all.
Only Ali, Louis, and Burns? What about Holmes, Lewis, and Tyson?
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Old 09-11-2007, 04:03 PM   #37
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Default Re: Where does Marciano rank all-time amongst the hws?

Lewis 7, Tyson 9 and Holmes 20

For Lineal only, Tyson made 2, and Lewis about 5.
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Old 09-11-2007, 04:06 PM   #38
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Default Re: Where does Marciano rank all-time amongst the hws?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dempsey1238
Marciano still be in the top ten if he lost 1 or 2 bouts.
If he had lost a bout then he would not only have lost it but it would remove a legacy win since presumably he would have lost to one of the best fighters he faced. The way to take away his 0 while causing the least disruption is to have him loose the first La Straza fight.

OK so he lost to LaStraza but it was his first big step up in competition and he brutaly avanged it and went on to dominate an era. It is also worth noting that some papers scored the LaStraza fight his way suggestin that he might actualy have retired unbeaten with some luck.

Despite this early blemish on his otherwise perfect record his competition compares favourably to other dominant champions such as Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey or Mike Tyson and he was more consistent against it.

He therfore clearly deserves a spot in the top 10 and is worthy of consideration for a top 5 slot.
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Old 09-11-2007, 04:07 PM   #39
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Default Re: Where does Marciano rank all-time amongst the hws?

I have him somewhere between 11 and 13. I'm juggling him with Holyfield and Bowe for those spots after the first ten. My top ten is pretty much decided.

Ali
Liston
Foreman
Tyson
Louis
Holmes
Frazier
Johnson
Dempsey
Lewis

Marciano to me just did not prove he could beat the heavyweights I have ranked above him. He was ony 5'-10¾" tall and 184lbs, not to mention short arms and p4p below-average handspeed. He could punch, yes, and he was conditioned and could take a punch, but is that really enough? Having a package like that is definetely not top 5 material, IMO. Not a hater, just telling it like it is.
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Old 09-11-2007, 04:08 PM   #40
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Default Re: Where does Marciano rank all-time amongst the hws?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dempsey1238
Lewis 7, Tyson 9 and Holmes 20

For Lineal only, Tyson made 2, and Lewis about 5.
Who cares about lineal?

Lewis had 14, and Tyson had 10 defenses, period.
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Old 09-11-2007, 04:09 PM   #41
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Default Re: Where does Marciano rank all-time amongst the hws?

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Originally Posted by C. M. Clay II
Marciano to me just did not prove he could beat the heavyweights I have ranked above him.
Do you feel that they proved that they could beat him?
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Old 09-11-2007, 04:09 PM   #42
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Default Re: Where does Marciano rank all-time amongst the hws?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luigi1985
1: Joe Louis
2: Muhammad Ali
3: Rocky Marciano
4: James J. Jeffries
5: Joe Frazier
6: Jack Dempsey
7: George Foreman
8: Lennox Lewis
9: Larry Holmes
10: Harry Wills
11: Sonny Liston
12: Jack Johnson
13: Mike Tyson
14: Evander Holyfield
15: Ezzard Charles
How can Wills be ranked over Liston, Johnson Holyfield & Tyson?
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Old 09-11-2007, 04:10 PM   #43
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Default Re: Where does Marciano rank all-time amongst the hws?

Quote:
Originally Posted by C. M. Clay II
Who cares about lineal?

Lewis had 14, and Tyson had 10 defenses, period.

People with boxing knowledge cares. Holmes for example defended against fighters like Bey who were 14-0-0, for me that doesn“t count that much (like a lineal title defense)...
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Old 09-11-2007, 04:11 PM   #44
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Default Re: Where does Marciano rank all-time amongst the hws?

Quote:
Originally Posted by C. M. Clay II
Who cares about lineal?

Lewis had 14, and Tyson had 10 defenses, period.
If there had been split titles in Marciano's era he might have picked up a strap from some contender like say Lee Savold or Rex Layne before he fought Walcott.

When comparing Tyson and Lewis to him it is only fair to include their lineal title defences since some alphabet titles frankly are not worth two buckests of warm spit.
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Old 09-11-2007, 04:12 PM   #45
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Default Re: Where does Marciano rank all-time amongst the hws?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amsterdam
How can Wills be ranked over Liston, Johnson Holyfield & Tyson?

Look at his resume. He won 17 times out of 20 against Langford, beat fighters of the calibre of Jeanette, McVea, Clark, Gunboat Smith, Fulton, etc....
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