Where does Marciano rank all-time amongst the hws?

[Luigi1985]

Originally Posted by Maxmomer

He didn't KO all of his opponents and a lot of people felt that LaStarza was robbed.

Of course, he KO´d all his opponents during his title reign, and the 1st LaStarza- fight, here it would help you at 1st reading some newspaper articles or something like that before making such comments...

[Bad_Intentions]

top 10....

[mr. magoo]

When comparing Tyson and Lewis to him it is only fair to include their lineal title defences since some alphabet titles frankly are not worth two buckests of warm spit.

While I certainly agree that a lineal title bears more weight than a mere fragment, I think that you're being a bit harsh by denying credit to a lot of good fighters who held belts. I agree that the introduction of titles like the WBO and IBO, was unecessary and getting a bit carried away, but there have been many good fighters who held titles, and weren't necessarily viewed as lineal champions, but were champions nonetheless.

[MagnificentMatt]

Originally Posted by KobeIsGod

I have him ranked third. Sure, H2H he might be a little lower but I prefer ranking according to how a boxer performed in their era. He cleaned up the division beating the best available opponents usually knocking them out, never lost, gave rematches to Walcott, Charles, and Lastarza after competitive first bouts, always came prepared and acted like a champ in and out of the ring.

As for not having the stiffest competition, any other hw aside from Ali can have his resume picked apart. The only thing he lacks is a longer title reign like my #1 Ali and #2 Louis. I think had he fought and stopped Floyd Patterson, he would probably be entrenched at #3.

So where does he rank?

Head to head i put a ton of people over him...His style wouldnt have worked past the late 60s...IMO and of course, size does matter in the heavyweight division.. All that said, i put him in the top 10 P4P on achievement standards though.

[Maxmomer]

the 1st LaStarza- fight, here it would help you at 1st reading some newspaper articles or something like that before making such comments...

From an article written by Monte Cox

Rocky’s unbeaten record is certainly not without tarnish. Many believe that Marciano actually did lose to Roland LaStarza in their first fight but got a gift decision. Jesse Abramson, boxing writer for the New York Daily Herald called it a “paper thin and exceedingly odd decision.” And it was “universally condemned around ringside as a miscarriage of justice”, according to newspaper reports. Even a member of the New England Press Corp, who would be inclined to favor Marciano in the New York bout against LaStarza, said it was a “dubious decision.” More than 50 years later LaStarza was incredulous of the decision, “I won that fight,” he maintained. In the New York Herald Tribune, Mar 25, 1950, LaStarza said, “The fact is his manager Al Weill was matchmaker for the Garden. I would say that had a lot to do with the decision.”

[Luigi1985]

Originally Posted by Maxmomer

From an article written by Monte Cox

It was a close fight, which could have scored either way. But without the controversial point detuction because of the low blow we wouldn´t now discuss, because than it would have been an UD. Marciano was the aggressor of the fight, threw more than twice the punches than Roland, but both landed ca. the same, LaStarza fought very effective with his great defense and let Marciano missed a lot of shots, now it´s important how you score a fight in the close rounds, do you give it to the boxer, or to the slugger? But it´s far away from a robbery or so...

I´m too lazy to search for another fight report/ opinion, or even searching where someone saled this fight on VHS or something like that, but it´s well known that it was a close fight, but no robbery or so like some Marciano- haters try to make it out...

[Bummy Davis]

Marciano defended his title vs the # 1 contender 5 times, only Cockel was ranked 2-3, and he was always better in rematches, Walcott,Charles,Lastarza and he rematched tough opponents, something not every Champ did. I have uncles who were rooting for Lastarza because he was from N.Y. but they felt Rocky won the first fight, even though Lastarza was a favorite, but they became fans of Rocky after that fight and the Vingo fight. Marciano dominated an era of some tough,skillfull men, I rate him 2

[brownpimp88]

To me, the lineal championship doesnt mean shit cuz from the 1890-1930's, the coloured heavyweight champ had a claim to being the real champ. In those days, the lineal champ wasnt the only guy defending a 'heavyweight' belt. I basically consider the 'coloured' world heavyweight belt, as the other world title in those days.

Mike Tyson beat 'full grown' heavyweights and he blasted them, the michael spinks that he beat was at a much better point in his own respective career than the charles and moore that rocky beat.

[brooklyn1550]

Anywhere from 3-10

[Marciano Frazier]

Originally Posted by Maxmomer

From an article written by Monte Cox

Cox's article is a bit slanted. I've seen several accounts which either had the fight dead-even or as such or had it for Marciano. Cox edits his quotes a little misleadingly, too- the "universally condemned around ringside" thing was actually "almost universally condemned around ringside"- and this is likely to be the impression you get when you're talking about a fight which happened in LaStarza's backyard(LaStarza was the first serious New York heavyweight contender in quite some years and was fighting on his home turf).

[fists of fury]

Originally Posted by Luigi1985

Marciano always won without the help of the judges...

Well...maybe not always.

Many believe that Rocky basically got a gift decsion over 'Tiger' Ted Lowry the first time. By all accounts it was a very close fight that could have (and maybe should have) gone to Lowry.

They had a rematch later and again it was a tough fight, although on this occasion Marciano won more convincingly. I've never been able to establish quite why Marciano struggled with Lowry.

I don't know much about the guy, but he was short - around 5'10" - and his record was hardly spectacular. However, there was something in his style that clearly bothered Marciano.
People talk about the first LaStarza fight being close, but the first Lowry fight was even closer.

[fists of fury]

Originally Posted by C. M. Clay II

He was ony 5'-10¾" tall and 184lbs, not to mention short arms and p4p below-average handspeed. He could punch, yes, and he was conditioned and could take a punch, but is that really enough?

With due respect, I think you're being a bit harsh on Marciano.

One could call Frazier a short, strong well-conditioned guy with one punch. Or Ali a speed demon with a good one-two. Obviously, there is a hell of a lot more going for these guys than that, although the basic description is accurate.

Perhaps H2H is unfair on the guy. He was, even by the standards of the day, not a big man.
To compare him with giant heavyweights like Lewis or Klitschko may be a little unfair.
However, he was a dominant heavyweight champion and that must be respected.

[janitor]

Originally Posted by fists of fury

Well...maybe not always.

Many believe that Rocky basically got a gift decsion over 'Tiger' Ted Lowry the first time. By all accounts it was a very close fight that could have (and maybe should have) gone to Lowry.

What sources do you have to suggest this?

This old chestnut is often trotted out by the Marciano detractors but I have never actualy seen anything to back it up.

[fists of fury]

Originally Posted by janitor

What sources do you have to suggest this?

This old chestnut is often trotted out by the Marciano detractors but I have never actualy seen anything to back it up.

Detractors? Geez, Janitor...I usually stick up for the Rock.

So far, my only source is the newish (or should I say latest) biography on Marciano called The Rock Of His Times by Russell Sullivan. Check it out.