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Old 09-11-2007, 02:46 PM   #16
C. M. Clay II
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Default Re: Power 180-200 pounds

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Originally Posted by Maxmomer
He fought at under 200 during his career, I think.
So? Jack Johnson fought in as low as 165 for some fights, but nobody thinks he's a sub 200 pounder, do they?
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Old 09-11-2007, 02:50 PM   #17
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Default Re: Power 180-200 pounds

peter maher for sure, langford, johansson,bob foster, satterfield as well as marciano and dempsey.
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Old 09-11-2007, 03:15 PM   #18
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Default Re: Power 180-200 pounds

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peter maher for sure, langford, johansson,bob foster, satterfield as well as marciano and dempsey.
Langford! Damn, I forgot. I'm ashamed of myself now.
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Old 09-11-2007, 03:29 PM   #19
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Default Re: Power 180-200 pounds

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Originally Posted by C. M. Clay II
I thought you knew better than that, janitor. Obviously Baer said that because he was bitter for the beating he got from Louis. Always you have the "fighter A who I beat up hits harder than fighter B who beat me up" syndrome.
I apreciate your reservations and I am certainly not arguing that Schmeling hit harder than Louis. The fact that Baer said this dose however suggest that Schmeling was a serious puncher.

Baer was generaly magnanimous in defeat and made no excuses when he lost to Jimmy Braddock despite the fact that he broke both hands.
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Old 09-11-2007, 03:46 PM   #20
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Default Re: Power 180-200 pounds

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Originally Posted by janitor
Interestingly Max Baer thought that Schmeling hit harder than Louis.
Punch for punch, I can't think of any of Joe's opponent's, off hand, who rated him as the hardest hitter for a single shot, and that apparently includes Uzcudun, Braddock and Schmeling, who were on the receiving end of the three hardest indivdual blows Louis ever delivered. But what makes Louis the best puncher in division history was his technical execution of all the types of punches he used, and his ability to put them together. (Years ago, I read a vividly articulate description of what it was like to be hit by Louis, related by Buddy Baer. I'm sure finding it online would not be too difficult.) Louis could drop and take out adversaries which much harder punchers had no success eliminating. The mechanics of his delivery also assured a consistent force of impact. Definitely a textbook case study in How to Do It.
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Old 09-11-2007, 03:49 PM   #21
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Default Re: Power 180-200 pounds

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Originally Posted by janitor
I apreciate your reservations and I am certainly not arguing that Schmeling hit harder than Louis. The fact that Baer said this dose however suggest that Schmeling was a serious puncher.

Baer was generaly magnanimous in defeat and made no excuses when he lost to Jimmy Braddock despite the fact that he broke both hands.
He wasn't magnanimous when talking about Louis after losing to him.
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Old 09-11-2007, 03:58 PM   #22
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Default Re: Power 180-200 pounds

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Originally Posted by C. M. Clay II
He wasn't magnanimous when talking about Louis after losing to him.
Everything I have read suggests that Baer always spoke glowingly of Louis's talents.

Do you have and reason to suggest otherwise.
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Old 09-11-2007, 04:22 PM   #23
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Default Re: Power 180-200 pounds

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Originally Posted by C. M. Clay II
So? Jack Johnson fought in as low as 165 for some fights, but nobody thinks he's a sub 200 pounder, do they?
Are you suggesting Louis's power was significantly less when he was below 200?
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Old 09-11-2007, 04:23 PM   #24
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Default Re: Power 180-200 pounds

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Originally Posted by C. M. Clay II
So? Jack Johnson fought in as low as 165 for some fights, but nobody thinks he's a sub 200 pounder, do they?
Louis defended the heavyweight title weighing in at 195 pounds.

Thats a little different than Johnson fighting at 165.
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Old 09-11-2007, 04:55 PM   #25
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Default Re: Power 180-200 pounds

It could possibly be Johansson, Patterson did say that he hit harder then Liston. If not him the maybe Marciano.
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Old 09-11-2007, 05:21 PM   #26
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Default Re: Power 180-200 pounds

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Originally Posted by Minotauro
It could possibly be Johansson,
Might just be actualy.

Though like with Louis there is an issue of delivery technique. Johansen could throw that right in a verry short distence.
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Old 09-11-2007, 09:30 PM   #27
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Default Re: Power 180-200 pounds

Marciano,Louis,Dempsey
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Old 09-11-2007, 10:49 PM   #28
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Default Re: Power 180-200 pounds

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Originally Posted by janitor
Circular logic.

You argue that Schmelings right hand was over rated because he needed a lot of punches to put Louis away but I could argue that it was because Louis had a good chin since nobody apart from Schmeling knocked him out anywhere close to his prime.

Interestingly Max Baer thought that Schmeling hit harder than Louis.
There's no circular logic there. As I mentioned, other people required a lot fewer clean punches to floor Louis or to have him hurt. Plus, I don't remember any other examples, when some real good puncher needed to land over half a hundred of his best punches cleanly to knock the opponent out.
Baer's opinion vs. Jack Blackburn's opinion, who was more experienced and knew it better? For me Blackburn hands down.
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Old 09-11-2007, 11:12 PM   #29
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Default Re: Power 180-200 pounds

Im gonna have to go wit saterfield here based on accounts of pretty much everyone who was hit by him
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Old 09-12-2007, 03:35 AM   #30
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Default Re: Power 180-200 pounds

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senya13
There's no circular logic there. As I mentioned, other people required a lot fewer clean punches to floor Louis or to have him hurt.
I could argue that Schmeling droped Louis and hurt him with a singl clean overhand right he landed in the fourth round from which Louis never recovered and that nobody else who droped him actualy had him in trouble.

Quote:
Plus, I don't remember any other examples, when some real good puncher needed to land over half a hundred of his best punches cleanly to knock the opponent out.
Louis lander over 250 against Max Baer.

Quote:
Baer's opinion vs. Jack Blackburn's opinion, who was more experienced and knew it better? For me Blackburn hands down.
Maybe Blackburn was just trying to talk Schmeling down before the fight. In private he spoke verry highly of him.
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