Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-14-2009, 12:59 PM   #1
The Kurgan
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Scotland
Posts: 4,227
vCash: 576
Default Where Do You Rank Evander Holyfield As A Heavyweight?

I think we can all agree he was the best boxer to fight in the cruiserweight division, but where do you rank him at heavyweight? I've seen him ranked everywhere from 5 to 20.
The Kurgan is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 08-14-2009, 01:07 PM   #2
Unforgiven
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 12,641
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Where Do You Rank Evander Holyfield As A Heavyweight?

I guess somewhere among the top 20.
Close to Lennox Lewis and Mike Tyson, maybe a hair in front of them.
Unforgiven is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 01:12 PM   #3
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 37,420
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Where Do You Rank Evander Holyfield As A Heavyweight?

10-14.
McGrain is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 01:13 PM   #4
Muchmoore
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Default Re: Where Do You Rank Evander Holyfield As A Heavyweight?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post
I guess somewhere among the top 20.
Close to Lennox Lewis and Mike Tyson, maybe a hair in front of them.
No way should he rank above Lewis. No matter what criteria, Lewis has him beat everywhere. I also rank Tyson well ahead of Holyfield but I weigh head to head highly so if you don't weigh head to head I can see Holy being a little ahead.

I rank Evander out of the top ten, around the 12 spot. He lost his trilogy when at his best against Bowe who isn't a top 10-12 fighter. He was a little to inconsistent for me to rank him in the top ten and even at his best had his hands full with Holmes, Foreman, Cooper etc. One of my favorites to watch though, he always brought it.
 Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 01:44 PM   #5
lefthook31
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: in a boxing gym near you
Posts: 10,432
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Where Do You Rank Evander Holyfield As A Heavyweight?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muchmoore View Post
No way should he rank above Lewis. No matter what criteria, Lewis has him beat everywhere. I also rank Tyson well ahead of Holyfield but I weigh head to head highly so if you don't weigh head to head I can see Holy being a little ahead.

I rank Evander out of the top ten, around the 12 spot. He lost his trilogy when at his best against Bowe who isn't a top 10-12 fighter. He was a little to inconsistent for me to rank him in the top ten and even at his best had his hands full with Holmes, Foreman, Cooper etc. One of my favorites to watch though, he always brought it.
Who has Lewis beat thats better than a prime Bowe? Lewis beat a lot of contenders, but not a lot of former champions or real savvy fighters. Guys like Grant, Golota, Mavrovic, Briggs, Tua, Akinwande, Botha, Morrison, were top tenners, but Holy has a whole score of those as well. Lewis best wins are probably Mercer, Bruno, Ruddock and Holyfield, and he had his hands full with Mercer and Bruno. His lackluster wins over Holyfield werent anything spectacular either.
Not sure thats better than
Bowe, Tyson, Moorer, Mercer, Foreman, Holmes, Douglas.
Lewis had the more consistent winning career, but I think Holyfield beat a better caliber of fighter overall.
lefthook31 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 02:16 PM   #6
ChrisPontius
March 8th, 1971
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Holland
Posts: 9,659
vCash: 238
Default Re: Where Do You Rank Evander Holyfield As A Heavyweight?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muchmoore View Post
I also rank Tyson well ahead of Holyfield but I weigh head to head highly so if you don't weigh head to head I can see Holy being a little ahead.
Holyfield beat the shit out of Tyson twice. If you include head-to-head, then certainly Holyfield would come out better compared to Tyson, but i assume you're talking head-to-head against the field?

I rank Holyfield at the lower end of the top10. He was somewhat inconsistent, but also at the top of a talent loaded division for a very long time and never avoided anyone. He should've gotten decision against Valuev, which is on par with Holmes beating Mercer....... and needless to say, a tremendous accomplishment. Especially if you consider that 19 or 20 (!!) years earlier he was beating ranked heavyweights. Very few can claim such longetivity.
ChrisPontius is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 02:24 PM   #7
lefthook31
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: in a boxing gym near you
Posts: 10,432
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Where Do You Rank Evander Holyfield As A Heavyweight?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius View Post
Holyfield beat the shit out of Tyson twice. If you include head-to-head, then certainly Holyfield would come out better compared to Tyson, but i assume you're talking head-to-head against the field?

I rank Holyfield at the lower end of the top10. He was somewhat inconsistent, but also at the top of a talent loaded division for a very long time and never avoided anyone. He should've gotten decision against Valuev, which is on par with Holmes beating Mercer....... and needless to say, a tremendous accomplishment. Especially if you consider that 19 or 20 (!!) years earlier he was beating ranked heavyweights. Very few can claim such longetivity.
Do you rank Lewis ahead of Holyfield?
lefthook31 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 02:26 PM   #8
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 37,420
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Where Do You Rank Evander Holyfield As A Heavyweight?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lefthook31 View Post
Do you rank Lewis ahead of Holyfield?
I do, i see it clear.
McGrain is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 02:27 PM   #9
mr. magoo
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chicago, Illinois USA
Posts: 13,753
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Where Do You Rank Evander Holyfield As A Heavyweight?

I think he makes the top 10, but probably on the lower tier of it...

He made the move to ascend to a higher weight class during a time when being a heavyweight meant being a very large man. He always showed up in picture perfect shape, unless he had some sort of uncontrolable health issue such as his torn shoulder in the Moorer fight, or hepatitis in the third Bowe match.

Both his heavyweight and cruiserweight records consist of virtually no padding, except for the occasional tune-up bout here and there. He fought the very best of a competitive division for well over a decade and ducked virtually no one. Most of his losses came at an advanced age, or under unfavorable circumstances. He is also the division's only 4 time champion - at least 3 of which are lineal claims.

Lastly, he has a rather good list of wins against top tier heavyweights who were either in their primes, or at least doing some very good work at the time he fought them, despite being past their best.

That list includes - Mike Tyson, Riddick Bowe, Michael Moorer, James Douglas, Michael Dokes, George Foreman, Hasim Rahman, and John Ruiz... He also gave one of the best comeback efforts at the age of 46 against the largest heavyweight champion of all time and arguably won it. Had he recieved the decision, he would have been the oldest man to ever win the heavyweight title.....
mr. magoo is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 02:35 PM   #10
lefthook31
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: in a boxing gym near you
Posts: 10,432
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Where Do You Rank Evander Holyfield As A Heavyweight?

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
I do, i see it clear.
Do you think he has better wins over better fighters and more accomplishments than Holyfield at heavyweight? Why do you rank him higher?
lefthook31 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 02:42 PM   #11
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 37,420
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Where Do You Rank Evander Holyfield As A Heavyweight?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lefthook31 View Post
Do you think he has better wins over better fighters and more accomplishments than Holyfield at heavyweight? Why do you rank him higher?
Lewis is a better HW, he beat Holyfield twice, or drew with him once and beat him once if you prefer. Holyfield himself describes how he benifited from the fear Lewis generated by taking on the guys who didn't want him. Lewis beat everyone he fought, including the best of the next generation whilst past prime.
McGrain is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 02:49 PM   #12
lefthook31
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: in a boxing gym near you
Posts: 10,432
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Where Do You Rank Evander Holyfield As A Heavyweight?

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
Lewis is a better HW, he beat Holyfield twice, or drew with him once and beat him once if you prefer. Holyfield himself describes how he benifited from the fear Lewis generated by taking on the guys who didn't want him. Lewis beat everyone he fought, including the best of the next generation whilst past prime.
That doesnt really answer the question. He beat Holyfield twice, but did he beat a prime Holyfield? To me its not a super impressive feat to avenge your losses against mid level contenders in Mcall and Rahman either. Avenging against another top level fighter like Bowe or Tyson would definitely be much bigger if it was on that level. Beating the best of the next generation and the generation he was involved in, was not that great in my opinion, and certainly doesnt have the quality of opposition that Holyfield faced.
lefthook31 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 03:12 PM   #13
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 37,420
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Where Do You Rank Evander Holyfield As A Heavyweight?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lefthook31 View Post
That doesnt really answer the question.

Well those are the reasons I rank Holyfield behind Lewis, which is what you asked for; I don't really know what else to tell you!
McGrain is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 03:34 PM   #14
Muchmoore
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Default Re: Where Do You Rank Evander Holyfield As A Heavyweight?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lefthook31 View Post
Who has Lewis beat thats better than a prime Bowe? Lewis beat a lot of contenders, but not a lot of former champions or real savvy fighters. Guys like Grant, Golota, Mavrovic, Briggs, Tua, Akinwande, Botha, Morrison, were top tenners, but Holy has a whole score of those as well. Lewis best wins are probably Mercer, Bruno, Ruddock and Holyfield, and he had his hands full with Mercer and Bruno. His lackluster wins over Holyfield werent anything spectacular either.
Not sure thats better than
Bowe, Tyson, Moorer, Mercer, Foreman, Holmes, Douglas.
Lewis had the more consistent winning career, but I think Holyfield beat a better caliber of fighter overall.
I don't put wins over Bowe (lost the series anyway) a post prison Tyson, Moorer (he lost the first fight to him) Mercer (Lennox also beat him) an old Foreman, ancient Holmes, and a Buster Douglas that disgraced the title by showing up resembling a whale over Vitali Klitschko, 2 over Holyfield himself, Tua, Ruddock, Bruno, Rahman, Morrison, Akinwande, Briggs, Golota, Grant, McCall, Tucker and Tyson. The depth of Lennox's resume is really 3rd only to Louis and Ali, and if you want to compare best wins, I wouldn't pick the out of shape Bowe that Holy beat or post Prison Tyson over the Vitali that Lennox beat.
 Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 03:36 PM   #15
Muchmoore
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Default Re: Where Do You Rank Evander Holyfield As A Heavyweight?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius View Post
but i assume you're talking head-to-head against the field?
Of course. Plus Tyson was farther from his best than Holyfield was when they fought, Holyfield put in two great performances where it was obvious Tyson was miles away from what he was. But it's still a great win for Evander, don't get me wrong.
 Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013