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Old 08-14-2009, 03:39 PM   #16
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Default Re: Where Do You Rank Evander Holyfield As A Heavyweight?

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. Plus Tyson was farther from his best than Holyfield was when they fought.
Wouldn't you agree that Holyfield looked worse going in though?
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Old 08-14-2009, 03:45 PM   #17
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Default Re: Where Do You Rank Evander Holyfield As A Heavyweight?

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Wouldn't you agree that Holyfield looked worse going in though?
Probably and if it wasnt for Holyfield having better Roids and being up for it he'd have been blasted out
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Old 08-14-2009, 03:45 PM   #18
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Default Re: Where Do You Rank Evander Holyfield As A Heavyweight?

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That doesnt really answer the question. He beat Holyfield twice, but did he beat a prime Holyfield? To me its not a super impressive feat to avenge your losses against mid level contenders in Mcall and Rahman either. Avenging against another top level fighter like Bowe .
Did Holyfield beat an inshape Bowe? Did Evander beat a prime Tyson? No. Ali's win over Foreman and Bowe's over Holyfield are really the only two fights where an ATG HW lost at their best, if you're going to fault Lennox for not beating an ATG at their peak than you have to also fault Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Tyson, Frazier, Holmes etc. etc. etc.

And you seem to forget that Holyfield lost his trilogy with Bowe. Yeah, he avenged his loss in the rematch by a razor thin decision, but then got taken out in the rubber match. And if Lennox avenging his loss to Rahman doesn't impress you, then you can discount Holy avenging his loss to Moorer which was more conclusive than Lennox simply getting lazy and getting caught.
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Old 08-14-2009, 03:47 PM   #19
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Default Re: Where Do You Rank Evander Holyfield As A Heavyweight?

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Wouldn't you agree that Holyfield looked worse going in though?
Yes, and that's always puzzled me a bit.

But I think a lot of that has to do with Evander fighting down to the level of his opposition, where against Tyson he knew he was in for one of the biggest fights of his life.
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Old 08-14-2009, 03:50 PM   #20
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Default Re: Where Do You Rank Evander Holyfield As A Heavyweight?

I rank Lewis in the bottom end of my top ten, Holy just outside the top ten and Tyson somewhere near 18-20. Longevity, resume, and head to head being the reasons. I personally liked Holy the best out of the three simply because he always came to fight and not have a chess match like Lennox did on multiple occasions. He also consistently fought the best available fighter, whether when he was the champ or trying to work his way back up.
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Old 08-14-2009, 04:08 PM   #21
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Default Re: Where Do You Rank Evander Holyfield As A Heavyweight?

He is definately lower to mid top ten for me .. I rate him ahead of Lewis without question .. head to head Lewis did nothing against an old Evander ... he was an exceptional fighter, no doubt .
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Old 08-14-2009, 05:17 PM   #22
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Default Re: Where Do You Rank Evander Holyfield As A Heavyweight?

I rank him ahead of Lewis also.
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Old 08-14-2009, 05:21 PM   #23
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Default Re: Where Do You Rank Evander Holyfield As A Heavyweight?

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Originally Posted by Muchmoore View Post
No way should he rank above Lewis. No matter what criteria, Lewis has him beat everywhere.
Comparing them in their prime periods or anywhere close to it, I think Holyfield's best wins are better than Lewis's and his worst defeats aren't as bad as Lewis's.

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I also rank Tyson well ahead of Holyfield but I weigh head to head highly so if you don't weigh head to head I can see Holy being a little ahead.
You mean "fantasy fight head-to-head".

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I rank Evander out of the top ten, around the 12 spot. He lost his trilogy when at his best against Bowe who isn't a top 10-12 fighter.
You are right. He fought Bowe three times and lost twice. Yeah, maybe he should have done what Lewis did with McCall and Rahman and just left it at 1-1. Bowe was pretty good though.

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He was a little to inconsistent for me to rank him in the top ten and even at his best had his hands full with Holmes, Foreman, Cooper etc. One of my favorites to watch though, he always brought it.
Fair enough.
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Old 08-14-2009, 05:39 PM   #24
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Default Re: Where Do You Rank Evander Holyfield As A Heavyweight?

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Comparing them in their prime periods or anywhere close to it, I think Holyfield's best wins are better than Lewis's and his worst defeats aren't as bad as Lewis's.
I'd pick the Vitali that fought Lennox over anyone on Holyfield's win column. As for the losses, Lennox was winning both of them until he got lazy and was caught. He was never outfought and outboxed like Holyfield was against Bowe and Moorer.

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You are right. He fought Bowe three times and lost twice. Yeah, maybe he should have done what Lewis did with McCall and Rahman and just left it at 1-1.
The difference is that Lewis avenged his two losses with ease, while Holyfield avenged his loss to Bowe by narrowly outpointing a Bowe that showed up fat. A rubber match between Lennox and McCall/Rahman would of meant nothing, while a rubber match was needed for Bowe-Holyfield.
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Old 08-14-2009, 05:43 PM   #25
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Default Re: Where Do You Rank Evander Holyfield As A Heavyweight?

Ive got him fifthteenth. I cant find a place for him ahead of

Ali
Louis
Johnson
Foreman
Marciano
Holmes
Dempsey
Langford
Lewis
Frazier
Liston
Wills
Tyson
Patterson

Last edited by essexboy; 08-14-2009 at 09:01 PM.
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Old 08-14-2009, 05:49 PM   #26
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Default Re: Where Do You Rank Evander Holyfield As A Heavyweight?

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Originally Posted by Muchmoore View Post
I'd pick the Vitali that fought Lennox over anyone on Holyfield's win column. As for the losses, Lennox was winning both of them until he got lazy and was caught. He was never outfought and outboxed like Holyfield was against Bowe and Moorer.
With that same cut incident? I don't know, and otherwise the comparison is pointless unless you address that Lewis would lose without Vitali having been cut? Either way I don't think that matters. I think some of Holy's win would make a good fight against Vitali.


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The difference is that Lewis avenged his two losses with ease, while Holyfield avenged his loss to Bowe by narrowly outpointing a Bowe that showed up fat. A rubber match between Lennox and McCall/Rahman would of meant nothing, while a rubber match was needed for Bowe-Holyfield.
But even a Bowe a little overweight is still far better than McCall or Rahman and the majority of Lewis other wins.
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Old 08-14-2009, 05:52 PM   #27
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Default Re: Where Do You Rank Evander Holyfield As A Heavyweight?

Muchmoore, I want to join in but you're saying everything I'd type anyways.
Good work keeping these fools who think Holyfields better than Lewis in check.
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Old 08-14-2009, 05:59 PM   #28
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Default Re: Where Do You Rank Evander Holyfield As A Heavyweight?

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Originally Posted by Muchmoore View Post
Did Holyfield beat an inshape Bowe? Did Evander beat a prime Tyson? No. Ali's win over Foreman and Bowe's over Holyfield are really the only two fights where an ATG HW lost at their best, if you're going to fault Lennox for not beating an ATG at their peak than you have to also fault Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Tyson, Frazier, Holmes etc. etc. etc.

And you seem to forget that Holyfield lost his trilogy with Bowe. Yeah, he avenged his loss in the rematch by a razor thin decision, but then got taken out in the rubber match. And if Lennox avenging his loss to Rahman doesn't impress you, then you can discount Holy avenging his loss to Moorer which was more conclusive than Lennox simply getting lazy and getting caught.
The Bowe of the second fight was pretty good. The Tyson that Holy beat was 100 times better than the one Lewis beat.
Doesnt matter who he lost to. Wins for wins, Holy has better wins over far better fighters in my opinion.
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Old 08-14-2009, 06:00 PM   #29
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Default Re: Where Do You Rank Evander Holyfield As A Heavyweight?

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Originally Posted by Muchmoore View Post
I don't put wins over Bowe (lost the series anyway) a post prison Tyson, Moorer (he lost the first fight to him) Mercer (Lennox also beat him) an old Foreman, ancient Holmes, and a Buster Douglas that disgraced the title by showing up resembling a whale over Vitali Klitschko, 2 over Holyfield himself, Tua, Ruddock, Bruno, Rahman, Morrison, Akinwande, Briggs, Golota, Grant, McCall, Tucker and Tyson. The depth of Lennox's resume is really 3rd only to Louis and Ali, and if you want to compare best wins, I wouldn't pick the out of shape Bowe that Holy beat or post Prison Tyson over the Vitali that Lennox beat.
I do answering your first set of comments.
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Old 08-14-2009, 08:10 PM   #30
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Default Re: Where Do You Rank Evander Holyfield As A Heavyweight?

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Originally Posted by BoxingFanNo1 View Post
Muchmoore, I want to join in but you're saying everything I'd type anyways.
Good work keeping these fools who think Holyfields better than Lewis in check.
Yeah I've been enjoying him schooling the mugs and thinking 'I couldnt have said that better myself'.
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