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Old 03-22-2013, 08:34 PM   #1576
Seamus
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

,
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Originally Posted by dinovelvet View Post
And Wlad isn't the best heavy from the past 7 years. Completely untrue
The best fighters in the division are Povektin, Fury , Pulev , Hilienius, Chisora, Arrolea, Banks, Wilder, Malik Scott ... and he hasn't beaten any of them.
I dont know what is more hilarious, your spelling or your boxing knowledge. You have put forth another absolute proclamation of ignorance.

Last edited by Seamus; 03-23-2013 at 02:08 AM.
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Old 03-23-2013, 08:01 AM   #1577
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Originally Posted by dinovelvet View Post
And Wlad isn't the best heavy from the past 7 years. Completely untrue
The best fighters in the division are Povektin, Fury , Pulev , Hilienius, Chisora, Arrolea, Banks, Wilder, Malik Scott ... and he hasn't beaten any of them.


Deontay Wilder isn't doing any better against ranked opponents than Andy Ruiz Jr, and Ruiz is only 246 pounds because he is very fat right now.
And Ruiz isn't the best right now.
Malik...
Mentioning Helenius and Chisora but no mentions of Haye?

Vitali was 27(27)-0 once too like Wilder, except Vitali beat better men and didn't get knocked down by total no hopes.

Malik couldn't finish Louis Monaco in 16 rounds (Even needing a sd win) who got finished in 3 by Vitali and got 100% KTFO by Eric Esch in 1 round.
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Old 03-23-2013, 08:17 AM   #1578
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Wlad has been the best heavyweight for the past 7 years, longer than Marciano had a career. In that time Wlad has only lost a handful of rounds. If Marciano had a career spanning 17 years, against internationally elite fighters for the bulk of that time, how many losses would he have accumulated? Marciano was a little better than a flash in the pan as was dictated by his style and physical limitations.

Wlad has great skills, throws textbook punches, even hooks off the jab, and displays immaculate footwork. Highly skilled.
"immaculate footwork" haha. Thats a good one. Explain what is immaculate about it?......Where is this footwork when he's getting backed up in straight lines by walking stump Peter's.....He couldn't close the distance or cut the ring off against Haye and landed a pityful average of 12 punches a round......Where's the latteral movement to evade shots when he's under attack?....Holding and jumping on his push bike does not equate to great footwork........He has to plant his feet to get off big shots and cant punch on the move...Another example of not having great footwork.
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Old 03-23-2013, 10:11 AM   #1579
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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It's called "percentology".

Oh..okay...I get it...

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Old 03-23-2013, 10:53 AM   #1580
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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It's called "percentology".
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Old 03-23-2013, 11:46 AM   #1581
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Originally Posted by dinovelvet View Post
"immaculate footwork" haha. Thats a good one. Explain what is immaculate about it?......Where is this footwork when he's getting backed up in straight lines by walking stump Peter's.....He couldn't close the distance or cut the ring off against Haye and landed a pityful average of 12 punches a round......Where's the latteral movement to evade shots when he's under attack?....Holding and jumping on his push bike does not equate to great footwork........He has to plant his feet to get off big shots and cant punch on the move...Another example of not having great footwork.
"Wlad has the best footwork, coordination and balance of any fighter I've been with." Emanuel Steward

"If you carefully observe Wladimir, the foundation of his entire boxing strategy is his underrated footwork. Moving in and out while keeping his distance frustrates his opponents and limits their attack." James Gogue

"While Wladimir has always been highly regarded for his offensive weapons, his defensive instincts, mastery of distance, and reflexive footwork have contributed to develop him into one of the top defensive fighters in the sport." Dave Matthew
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Old 03-23-2013, 12:45 PM   #1582
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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"Wlad has the best footwork, coordination and balance of any fighter I've been with." Emanuel Steward

"If you carefully observe Wladimir, the foundation of his entire boxing strategy is his underrated footwork. Moving in and out while keeping his distance frustrates his opponents and limits their attack." James Gogue

"While Wladimir has always been highly regarded for his offensive weapons, his defensive instincts, mastery of distance, and reflexive footwork have contributed to develop him into one of the top defensive fighters in the sport." Dave Matthew
Good not Immaculate. immaculate would mean he has the bestwork a fighter can have which he doesn't.....
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Old 03-23-2013, 01:05 PM   #1583
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Immaculate.

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Old 03-23-2013, 01:26 PM   #1584
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

[The loss to Brewster was particularly troubling. Afterward, the Klitschko camp claimed that their fighter had been drugged. Brewster took a contrary view.] Wladimir Klitschko is a great athlete, ... But Wladimir Klitschko is not a great fighter. There's a difference.

Is Brewster wrong?
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Old 03-23-2013, 01:38 PM   #1585
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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“[The loss to Brewster was particularly troubling. Afterward, the Klitschko camp claimed that their fighter had been drugged. Brewster took a contrary view.] Wladimir Klitschko is a great athlete, ... But Wladimir Klitschko is not a great fighter. There's a difference.”

Is Brewster wrong?
Every fighter has flaws. All joking aside, no one is saying Wlad is perfect or anywhere near it. If you put Vitali's (or Marciano's) mentality in Wlad's body you would have a damn near unbeatable fighting machine.

The question becomes who best exploits their opponent's weakness while protecting their own. Wlad has been very good at protecting his flaws as a fighter, almost seamless over the past seven years. That constitutes a great run by any measure.

In this particular match-up, I see Wlad's physicality and the way his style employs his physical assets overcoming Marciano's weaknesses long before anything to the contrary would occur.
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Old 03-23-2013, 01:47 PM   #1586
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Every fighter has flaws. All joking aside, no one is saying Wlad is perfect or anywhere near it. If you put Vitali's (or Marciano's) mentality in Wlad's body you would have a damn near unbeatable fighting machine.

The question becomes who best exploits their opponent's weakness while protecting their own. Wlad has been very good at protecting his flaws as a fighter, almost seamless over the past seven years. That constitutes a great run by any measure.

In this particular match-up, I see Wlad's physicality and the way his style employs his physical assets overcoming Marciano's weaknesses long before anything to the contrary would occur.
CAnt agree with that. He still doesn't have the chin, stamina or punch variation to be that kind of fighter....
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Old 03-23-2013, 02:00 PM   #1587
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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CAnt agree with that. He still doesn't have the chin, stamina or punch variation to be that kind of fighter....
He's damn near unbeatable as he is.

The chin thing is largely mental, how he reacts to getting hit flush. He's much better now, as was witness by the big shots Peter was landing in the second fight. Not great, but improved.

He's got more punches in his arsenal that he is given credit for, and what he uses he executes almost flawlessly.
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Old 03-23-2013, 02:26 PM   #1588
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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He's damn near unbeatable as he is.

The chin thing is largely mental, how he reacts to getting hit flush. He's much better now, as was witness by the big shots Peter was landing in the second fight. Not great, but improved.

He's got more punches in his arsenal that he is given credit for, and what he uses he executes almost flawlessly.
He hasn't fought a tough opponent since 2011 and didn't look unbeatable then....Even tho he practically shut out Haye he was rocked the most throughout the whole fight between the two in round 12. He was also deducted a point for holding to much....... How can he be at the top when his next opponent is Pineata.
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Old 03-23-2013, 06:07 PM   #1589
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Haye wouldn't beat Marciano.

Does too many things wrong, doesn't have the length, strength, or feet to keep Marciano off.

Most credit I'd give Haye in a fantasy fight with Marciano is that he has a decent shot to score a KD early on a booming 1-2 or counter uppercut, but Haye isn't beating Rocky.

And he's fighting Pianeta because who the hell else is there? An undefeated opponent with nearly 30 fights who is willing to promote for cheap and step up and step up without drama. That's the heavyweight division these days; I'm living it, right now. There are only 25 or so really class guys, it's hard to get them in the ring with eachother, and the fight anybody types like Adamek and David Price are currently winning bad decisions and losing their credibility or getting whupped by guys who aren't going to be challenging again(Though, in this era, Tony Thompson may get a third shot, if he wins another shocker or puts together a solid win streak off the Price kayo.)

This is a pretty poor era in heavyweight history, but it is getting better: We have a lot of very successful young fighters, like Pulev, and they are fighting eachother. Marciano's reign wasn't fantastic either, his most credible challenges coming in the form of older, fading fighters and former light heavyweights, but we give him credit because he's facing everybody who is available. Louis fought in a bit of a stronger era, but not by much, and he fought everybody who was available. The bum of the month club wasn't some cherry picking contest; Louis needed to fight, and he took on what he could, and whenever a credible challenge arose, he met that too. Wlad is doing the same thing. I don't think he's a top 10 heavyweight great, but anybody who insinuates dominating a division for damn near a decade isn't a great accomplishment has no perspective about how hard being a top level fighter is. He's doing everything anybody can ask of him besides fighting his own flesh and blood older brother(Wish he would, know he won't.).

Great fighters meet challenges and consistently overcome them. They dominate. They win. Not much more too it than that.
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Old 03-23-2013, 06:19 PM   #1590
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
Haye wouldn't beat Marciano.

Does too many things wrong, doesn't have the length, strength, or feet to keep Marciano off.

Most credit I'd give Haye in a fantasy fight with Marciano is that he has a decent shot to score a KD early on a booming 1-2 or counter uppercut, but Haye isn't beating Rocky.

And he's fighting Pianeta because who the hell else is there? An undefeated opponent with nearly 30 fights who is willing to promote for cheap and step up and step up without drama. That's the heavyweight division these days; I'm living it, right now. There are only 25 or so really class guys, it's hard to get them in the ring with eachother, and the fight anybody types like Adamek and David Price are currently winning bad decisions and losing their credibility or getting whupped by guys who aren't going to be challenging again(Though, in this era, Tony Thompson may get a third shot, if he wins another shocker or puts together a solid win streak off the Price kayo.)

This is a pretty poor era in heavyweight history, but it is getting better: We have a lot of very successful young fighters, like Pulev, and they are fighting eachother. Marciano's reign wasn't fantastic either, his most credible challenges coming in the form of older, fading fighters and former light heavyweights, but we give him credit because he's facing everybody who is available. Louis fought in a bit of a stronger era, but not by much, and he fought everybody who was available. The bum of the month club wasn't some cherry picking contest; Louis needed to fight, and he took on what he could, and whenever a credible challenge arose, he met that too. Wlad is doing the same thing. I don't think he's a top 10 heavyweight great, but anybody who insinuates dominating a division for damn near a decade isn't a great accomplishment has no perspective about how hard being a top level fighter is. He's doing everything anybody can ask of him besides fighting his own flesh and blood older brother(Wish he would, know he won't.).

Great fighters meet challenges and consistently overcome them. They dominate. They win. Not much more too it than that.

Your logic just like the logic of many Klitschko fans is fundamentally flawed in that again and again you people go into the stats area for Wladimir.

'He held the title for this long, 'he dominated for this long 'he is top dog for this long'...

The reason it's flawed is because Wlad never had to fight the one threat to him in Vitali. (And Vice Versa) If Vitali was name Val Kliingston and is a London Born 6'8 fighter instead of Wladimir's brother.. they would have fought at least 2 times by now.. Wladimir's chances of losing to Vitali is 50/50 hence breaking his streak.

You can't just credit Wlad for his dominance and brush aside the fact he never fought the clear #2 of his era by saying 'well they are brothers it's excusable' .. It is excusable, but the flaw it creates in Wladimir's statistical achievements is not .

Wlad's streak might not have been as long if Vitali was not his brother and they fought .Vitali might not have looked anywhere near as impressive if Wlad was not his brother and they fought.. It is what it is.

Not to mention all the intangibles a defeat could have brought upon Wladimir if Vitali was not his brother.

He was already knocked out 3 times ... going into 2006.. Imagine if he had fought Vitali in 2008 and got knocked out a 4th time.. That might have ended his career. Once again... it's just so flawed with the Klitschkos because they have the bad luck of being brothers, hence each taking away his greatest challenge.

It's not their fault, but you damn sure should factor that in when discussing their rankings.
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