Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

[Seamus]

Originally Posted by SP_Mauler

Why are you asking me these questions, I never once said SIZE MATTERS unlike you.

Can't answer it?

The heavyweight division is the only division in which historically you can compare two fighters who are 60 pounds, 8 inches in height and 14 inches in reach apart. Yes, in this case size matters a whole hell of a lot. But more so is that Wlad is highly skilled and employs his style to the utmost efficiency, as well as Marciano did his own style, and against bigger, more prime opponents. Those things being equal, Wlad's incredible athletic advantages and the almost impregnable style he has developed make this a really easy fight to call.

Your only recourse to defend your argument is to argue the abolition of weight divisions. Otherwise, how could you argue that 60 pounds between two equally dominant heavyweight does not matter?

You have painted yourself into a corner and I am not in least surprised.

[SP_Mauler]

Originally Posted by Seamus

The heavyweight division is the only division in which historically you can compare two fighters who are 60 pounds, 8 inches in height and 14 inches in reach apart. Yes, in this case size matters a whole hell of a lot. But more so is that Wlad is highly skilled and employs his style to the utmost efficiency, as well as Marciano did his own style, and against bigger, more prime opponents. Those things being equal, Wlad's incredible athletic advantages and the almost impregnable style he has developed make this a really easy fight to call.

Your only recourse to defend your argument is to argue the abolition of weight divisions. Otherwise, how could you argue that 60 pounds between two equally dominant heavyweight does not matter?

You have painted yourself into a corner and I am not in least surprised.

Only in the HW division there are certain fighters where the weight,size of their opponents do not matter. A example is the one I have made and the one you cannot refute.

Corner? You can't even explain your own logic behind size other then "He's bigger it matters."

[SP_Mauler]

Originally Posted by glover

Mauler;

Of all the modern detractors you are the one to make the most claims about things which are "mathematically proven" otherwise. There was an analysis run of thousands of fights and the results and when checked it turned out that if a fighter both out weighed, out talled and out reached his opponent his chances were 2 or 3 fold increased depending on the margin. And that weight is the most important factor is a no brainer that's why there are limit divisions. They could keep going with more divisions but the idea in the heavy div is that if you can't compete at your current size you need to either lose weight and go cruiser or do some squats and deads and eat more food!

This is irrefutable... There is NOBODY! who is immune to this rule! Weight is by no means the only issue of course but it is always one of the most important. Muhammad Ali is a perfect example. Wladimir Klitschko, big as he is, ONLY OUTWEIGHS OPPONENTS IN 50% of his fights as opposed to Muhammad Ali/Cassius Clay who OUTWEIGHED HIS OPPONENTS IN 70% of his! So before anyone can claim that weight meant nothing to Ali, it turns out right before we even analyse anything else... It actually did.

If you take a weight class to be 15lbs, And Rocky to be 188lbs and Wlad to be 248lbs, you can see clearly that Wlad is FOUR WEIGHT CLASSES LARGER THAN ROCKY! It would be like the fly weight champion KOing the super middleweight one.

Whatever organisation is paying you to argue this nonsense must be very generous with their salary because I wouldn't want to be embarrassing yourself like you are lol

Corner;

Don't worry mate, I CAN explain it to this idiot! lol

You are right the only idiot is I and it's because im replying.

I'm assuming this "analysis" put a different weighting on each factors but would most likely rank EVERY 200lb FIGHTER THE SAME IN TERMS OF SKILL,HEART,PAIN THRESHOLD? Yes of course it would. Therefore the test is biased. Moron.

BTW link me to this test.I am very curious because it was take complex mathematical formulas,years of trial and error,tons of back fitting and then simulating current boxing matches to near perfection... Link me

[dinovelvet]

Originally Posted by Seamus

Are you talking about Moli?

What a ****ing idiotic question. This is your great trump card? Really? Jesus ****ing Christ.

Let me ask why George Foreman let 190 pound Peralta go 10 but stopped 250 pound Mel Turnbow in 1.

Let me ask why Lewis let amateur, sickly Mavrovic go 12 but stopped giant, experience Golota in 1?

Let me ask why Joe Louis crushes Simon in 6 but lets Conn almost take the crown from him.

How about Byrd was a fantastic fighter, a world champion fighter and Moli was a nothing? How about Byrd lost almost every round of the first fight, was KD'd twice, and got ****ing housed in the second fight, beaten to a pulp and stopped?

Come up with better material.

Get out of here with Byrd was a fantastic fighter.. Because you cant gloat about any other name on Wlads record, dont prop him up on some fake pedistal..........He'd be nothing if he hadn't won the Vitali fight by accident....The guy had a stance like he was crawling on the floor or about to go climb some rocks...He tried to catch punches like a baseball catcher........He thought he could do the rope a dope when he couldn't.......He couldn't punch through surface water.....He doesn't have one good win at the weight....He was one of the very worst heavies the 2000's. Touch of Sleep was better than him.

[dinovelvet]

shut ur ****in hole cunt.. u hear me yeah? i wont wear it
..im loyay here. fury is make or break 4 me .. he holmes or he big mac..

[WABCBoxer]

Despite the physical differences, Marciano wins at least 50% of the time. Marciano has a greatness that transcends time and style, Wlad doesn't. Balls and heart go a long way. No one "owns" Marciano, not even a prime Tyson.

[dinovelvet]

Originally Posted by glover

Huh lol you have got to be ****ing joking me you guys here on ESB would make THE worst bookies the world has ever known. Any punter would LOVE to bet on fights with any of you guys on this site making odds. I should chuck my job in and start laying out cash on the fights but something tells me the guys that make the odds for the fights aren't QUITE so silly as you'se are!!

qUIT your job and put bets against Marciano. Go ahead. What are you waiting for.

[dinovelvet]

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[SP_Mauler]

Originally Posted by glover

Mauler;

The test was sourced from the heavyweightblog.com, an extremely biased site toward the Ukranian fighters but one which contains some of the most complete statistical compilations ever assembled nonetheless (don't know how to link you, not good with computers.) Not sure which article but there isn't that many.

OF COURSE the test only took into account the body parameters, weight, height and reach and the fight results win or loss. It was not meant to show that weight trumps everything else, just to show that size is always an important factor and that a bummy heavy opponents CAN be more dangerous than a skilled light one!

Obiously I'm not claiming the heaviest/tallest boxer always wins, if that were the case then nobody would box would they because as soon as they had to fight someone who outgunned them loss would be assured wouldn't it.

But from the get go you have to admit if you have an ounce of common sense that without any further comparison, just on their body parameters alone, you gotta conclude that Rocky doesn't stand a chance! I mean Wlad is not just a big oaf, he is the giant HEAVY WEIGHT CHAMP OF THE WORLD! With a size differential unheard of in any real boxing match!

So you wanna take a bias analysis which can be refuted into a argument...Are you some sort of genius?

Evander Holyfield was outweighed in every HW match and won more then the suggested percentage said he would.

Chris Byrd was the same.
David Haye is the same.


Rocky Marciano was the same.

[SP_Mauler]

Originally Posted by glover

The analysis was not biased you idiot, the site it was from was is all I meant. The stats are just the stats, that's it.

In fact you can't have stats that line up with your point of view because they just don't exist!

The stats are bias. They don't count competiton they merely count for "KO Ratio" Wow.. Boxing is all about KOing everyone??

Originally Posted by glover

David Haye and Evander Holyfield and even Chris Byrd are excellent boxers but if you had bothered to even check there ratings you would discover...

David Haye has not had enough real HW fights yet to even make a representative sample...

ROFL his sample size is fine you idiot what test is running to get his "sample size". Look at Pianeta nothing pointed towards KO but hey he was KO'd in 6 oh uhh better run another r2 test

Originally Posted by glover

Evander Holyfield has a KO ratio of 40% at HW and 44% when you delete the bums. This indicates he is a heavyweight feather fist! A hard knockout puncher at Cruiserweight like Evander suddenly becomes a featherfist when they move up to Heavy!

LOL you fail to see the competition difference.

Originally Posted by glover

Chris Byrd has a KO ratio of 46% at HW and only 31% when you delete the bums! This makes him one of the most extremely featherfisted guys, nerly as bad as Ali! BUT if you include all of Byrds cruiser opponents together, as would be the case if he fought back in the 40's and 50's (which even included light heavy that cruisers aren't allowed to fight mind you) then all of a sudden Byrds KO ratio jump to around 75% and he is regarded as a hard hitting HW as he would back then. In fact if Byrd was allowed to KO light heavies like Marciano as well he would probably have a KO ratio in the 90 percentile and be regarded as the best knock out artist ever!

Again what does KO ratio have to do with anything? You're effectively saying every HW fighter can punch.. You can't even see how dumb you're coming across with these statistics.

Purrity is a bum and he KO'd Wladimir.

Originally Posted by glover

Your little Marciano would be lucky to compete with the very athletic light heavyweights of today, despite his big punch.

Your little Marciano would be considered a weak puncher at cruiserweight today.

Your little Marciano would NOT BE ALLOWED TO BOX A REAL HW TODAY for health reasons!

If he were somehow allowed to box at HW today he would be completely unable to even hurt his opponent and recieve a brutal 1st round KO from even the bummiest of opponents.

He would KO Wlad. Wlad has been KO'd by a bum in Purrity. Marciano has never been KO'd at all.

Originally Posted by glover

If he were somehow able to face Klitschko there isn't a way in the world Rocky could even lay a glove on him and would be KO'd by the change in air pressure before Wlad's glove even touched him.

That's your Marciano! Tch! A joke! lol

Yea but Rocky has beaten every HW bigger then him,never been knocked out,highest contender ko ratio..statically he's better then Wlad and Vitali


Deontay Wilder hasn't got one name on his KOing resume is he greatest puncher of all time?????? Must be.

[SP_Mauler]

Rocky Marciano Statistics

KO heavier opponents : 100%
KO champion and heavier opponents : 100%
KO previous and current world champions : 100%
Chance of being beaten in 12 round : 0%
Chance of being beaten at Championship level : 0%
KO percent of fighters who have KO'd heavier opponents: 100%
Chances of beating Europeans: 100%
Punch resistance holding up against heavier opponents: 100%
Being behind on the cards against heavier opponents and winning: 100%
KO against 250lb+ opponents: 100%


GOAT

[SP_Mauler]

At what number of fights did HWBlog determine doesn't alter the outcome of the percentages,so you can justify why we cant use David Haye stats? I am curious!!

[SP_Mauler]

Get your mate to run his variables through mlr to see if there is any predictability at all and get back to me bra

[WABCBoxer]

Glover, your estimation of Klitschko's (and Lewis') skills and abilities are greatly and unrealistically exaggerated. I'm not saying they're bad fighters necessarily, but you seem to think that Klitschko and Lewis are these great legendary ATG fighters. LOL geezus, get serious, would you. They are easily two of the most overrated HW champs in history.

[Absolutely!]

Originally Posted by WABCBoxer

Glover, your estimation of Klitschko's (and Lewis') skills and abilities are greatly and unrealistically exaggerated. I'm not saying they're bad fighters necessarily, but you seem to think that Klitschko and Lewis are these great legendary ATG fighters. LOL geezus, get serious, would you. They are easily two of the most overrated HW champs in history.

No, quite underrated actually, especially compared to some of the stalwarts of the boxing landscape.