Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

[SP_Mauler]

Originally Posted by Seamus

Are you talking about Moli?

What a fucking idiotic question. This is your great trump card? Really? Jesus fucking Christ.

Let me ask why George Foreman let 190 pound Peralta go 10 but stopped 250 pound Mel Turnbow in 1.

Let me ask why Lewis let amateur, sickly Mavrovic go 12 but stopped giant, experience Golota in 1?

Let me ask why Joe Louis crushes Simon in 6 but lets Conn almost take the crown from him.

How about Byrd was a fantastic fighter, a world champion fighter and Moli was a nothing? How about Byrd lost almost every round of the first fight, was KD'd twice, and got fucking housed in the second fight, beaten to a pulp and stopped?

Come up with better material.

Why are you asking me these questions, I never once said SIZE MATTERS unlike you.

Can't answer it?

[Seamus]

Originally Posted by SP_Mauler

Why are you asking me these questions, I never once said SIZE MATTERS unlike you.

Can't answer it?

The heavyweight division is the only division in which historically you can compare two fighters who are 60 pounds, 8 inches in height and 14 inches in reach apart. Yes, in this case size matters a whole hell of a lot. But more so is that Wlad is highly skilled and employs his style to the utmost efficiency, as well as Marciano did his own style, and against bigger, more prime opponents. Those things being equal, Wlad's incredible athletic advantages and the almost impregnable style he has developed make this a really easy fight to call.

Your only recourse to defend your argument is to argue the abolition of weight divisions. Otherwise, how could you argue that 60 pounds between two equally dominant heavyweight does not matter?

You have painted yourself into a corner and I am not in least surprised.

[SP_Mauler]

Originally Posted by Seamus

The heavyweight division is the only division in which historically you can compare two fighters who are 60 pounds, 8 inches in height and 14 inches in reach apart. Yes, in this case size matters a whole hell of a lot. But more so is that Wlad is highly skilled and employs his style to the utmost efficiency, as well as Marciano did his own style, and against bigger, more prime opponents. Those things being equal, Wlad's incredible athletic advantages and the almost impregnable style he has developed make this a really easy fight to call.

Your only recourse to defend your argument is to argue the abolition of weight divisions. Otherwise, how could you argue that 60 pounds between two equally dominant heavyweight does not matter?

You have painted yourself into a corner and I am not in least surprised.

Only in the HW division there are certain fighters where the weight,size of their opponents do not matter. A example is the one I have made and the one you cannot refute.

Corner? You can't even explain your own logic behind size other then "He's bigger it matters."

[glover]

Mauler;

Of all the modern detractors you are the one to make the most claims about things which are "mathematically proven" otherwise. There was an analysis run of thousands of fights and the results and when checked it turned out that if a fighter both out weighed, out talled and out reached his opponent his chances were 2 or 3 fold increased depending on the margin. And that weight is the most important factor is a no brainer that's why there are limit divisions. They could keep going with more divisions but the idea in the heavy div is that if you can't compete at your current size you need to either lose weight and go cruiser or do some squats and deads and eat more food!

This is irrefutable... There is NOBODY! who is immune to this rule! Weight is by no means the only issue of course but it is always one of the most important. Muhammad Ali is a perfect example. Wladimir Klitschko, big as he is, ONLY OUTWEIGHS OPPONENTS IN 50% of his fights as opposed to Muhammad Ali/Cassius Clay who OUTWEIGHED HIS OPPONENTS IN 70% of his! So before anyone can claim that weight meant nothing to Ali, it turns out right before we even analyse anything else... It actually did.

If you take a weight class to be 15lbs, And Rocky to be 188lbs and Wlad to be 248lbs, you can see clearly that Wlad is FOUR WEIGHT CLASSES LARGER THAN ROCKY! It would be like the fly weight champion KOing the super middleweight one.

Whatever organisation is paying you to argue this nonsense must be very generous with their salary because I wouldn't want to be embarrassing yourself like you are lol

Corner;

Don't worry mate, I CAN explain it to this idiot! lol

[SP_Mauler]

Originally Posted by glover

Mauler;

Of all the modern detractors you are the one to make the most claims about things which are "mathematically proven" otherwise. There was an analysis run of thousands of fights and the results and when checked it turned out that if a fighter both out weighed, out talled and out reached his opponent his chances were 2 or 3 fold increased depending on the margin. And that weight is the most important factor is a no brainer that's why there are limit divisions. They could keep going with more divisions but the idea in the heavy div is that if you can't compete at your current size you need to either lose weight and go cruiser or do some squats and deads and eat more food!

This is irrefutable... There is NOBODY! who is immune to this rule! Weight is by no means the only issue of course but it is always one of the most important. Muhammad Ali is a perfect example. Wladimir Klitschko, big as he is, ONLY OUTWEIGHS OPPONENTS IN 50% of his fights as opposed to Muhammad Ali/Cassius Clay who OUTWEIGHED HIS OPPONENTS IN 70% of his! So before anyone can claim that weight meant nothing to Ali, it turns out right before we even analyse anything else... It actually did.

If you take a weight class to be 15lbs, And Rocky to be 188lbs and Wlad to be 248lbs, you can see clearly that Wlad is FOUR WEIGHT CLASSES LARGER THAN ROCKY! It would be like the fly weight champion KOing the super middleweight one.

Whatever organisation is paying you to argue this nonsense must be very generous with their salary because I wouldn't want to be embarrassing yourself like you are lol

Corner;

Don't worry mate, I CAN explain it to this idiot! lol

You are right the only idiot is I and it's because im replying.

I'm assuming this "analysis" put a different weighting on each factors but would most likely rank EVERY 200lb FIGHTER THE SAME IN TERMS OF SKILL,HEART,PAIN THRESHOLD? Yes of course it would. Therefore the test is biased. Moron.

BTW link me to this test.I am very curious because it was take complex mathematical formulas,years of trial and error,tons of back fitting and then simulating current boxing matches to near perfection... Link me

[dinovelvet]

Originally Posted by Seamus

Are you talking about Moli?

What a fucking idiotic question. This is your great trump card? Really? Jesus fucking Christ.

Let me ask why George Foreman let 190 pound Peralta go 10 but stopped 250 pound Mel Turnbow in 1.

Let me ask why Lewis let amateur, sickly Mavrovic go 12 but stopped giant, experience Golota in 1?

Let me ask why Joe Louis crushes Simon in 6 but lets Conn almost take the crown from him.

How about Byrd was a fantastic fighter, a world champion fighter and Moli was a nothing? How about Byrd lost almost every round of the first fight, was KD'd twice, and got fucking housed in the second fight, beaten to a pulp and stopped?

Come up with better material.

Get out of here with Byrd was a fantastic fighter.. Because you cant gloat about any other name on Wlads record, dont prop him up on some fake pedistal..........He'd be nothing if he hadn't won the Vitali fight by accident....The guy had a stance like he was crawling on the floor or about to go climb some rocks...He tried to catch punches like a baseball catcher........He thought he could do the rope a dope when he couldn't.......He couldn't punch through surface water.....He doesn't have one good win at the weight....He was one of the very worst heavies the 2000's. Touch of Sleep was better than him.

[glover]

Mauler;

The test was sourced from the heavyweightblog.com, an extremely biased site toward the Ukranian fighters but one which contains some of the most complete statistical compilations ever assembled nonetheless (don't know how to link you, not good with computers.) Not sure which article but there isn't that many.

OF COURSE the test only took into account the body parameters, weight, height and reach and the fight results win or loss. It was not meant to show that weight trumps everything else, just to show that size is always an important factor and that a bummy heavy opponents CAN be more dangerous than a skilled light one!

Obiously I'm not claiming the heaviest/tallest boxer always wins, if that were the case then nobody would box would they because as soon as they had to fight someone who outgunned them loss would be assured wouldn't it.

But from the get go you have to admit if you have an ounce of common sense that without any further comparison, just on their body parameters alone, you gotta conclude that Rocky doesn't stand a chance! I mean Wlad is not just a big oaf, he is the giant HEAVY WEIGHT CHAMP OF THE WORLD! With a size differential unheard of in any real boxing match!

[dinovelvet]

shut ur fuckin hole cunt.. u hear me yeah? i wont wear it
..im loyay here. fury is make or break 4 me .. he holmes or he big mac..

[WABCBoxer]

Despite the physical differences, Marciano wins at least 50% of the time. Marciano has a greatness that transcends time and style, Wlad doesn't. Balls and heart go a long way. No one "owns" Marciano, not even a prime Tyson.

[glover]

Huh lol you have got to be fucking joking me you guys here on ESB would make THE worst bookies the world has ever known. Any punter would LOVE to bet on fights with any of you guys on this site making odds. I should chuck my job in and start laying out cash on the fights but something tells me the guys that make the odds for the fights aren't QUITE so silly as you'se are!!