Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

[HOUDINI]

Take Wlads power? Please take a moment and watch Purity, Brewster and Sanders starch Wlad. What happens when Marciano hits him on that same fragile chin?

[Seamus]

Originally Posted by HOUDINI

Weight divisions are there for the lower weights. A fighter like Dempsey, Louis or Marciano had the power to ko any man at any time no matter what the weight.

Which is why we have so many 5 foot 10, 67 inch reach, 185 pound guys fighting for the heavyweight title.

Oh, but I forget, Marciano is once in a century physical freak even among an echelon of physical freaks.

[Seamus]

Originally Posted by orriray59

Mate, you ever take a punch off a man just 10lbs heavier than you? 20lbs?

How about 70lbs? Who's also half a foot taller, with an almost 20'' reach advantage?

I was going to ask that, also.

The one time I sparred with a big heavy, and not a particularly good one, I thought the ****ing ceiling had fallen on my head.

[HOUDINI]

Marciano took punches from many bigger fighters than himself....he was never Koed by any of them. Being able to punch hard is much more a developed skill than dependent on size. Louis as one example not only beat but KOed every big man he ever faced. Marciano the same. Size is vastly overrated by the young guys who are easily impressed by Wlad/Vitalis physique...... meaningless. Usually the real big fighters fall in sections when hit well. LOOK at what happened to Wlad THREE times as evidence.

[Manassa]

I used to spar regularly with someone who was about 6ft 4in and 240lbs (compared to my, back then, 5ft 11in and 140lbs) and reasonably skilled for his size. I struggled to deal with the strength disparity and moving power he had compared to me; I had to expend twice as much effort in order to stay safe and was twice as affected by each shot he landed. The fact that I was speedier and more skillful meant I could survive medium intensity sparring.

When we talk about professional athletes in a real fight? Klitschko would be as skilled or more skillful than Marciano, as quick or quicker, more powerful, and though the weight difference would be 'only' 65lbs or so, the height and reach difference would be greater - eight inches or thereabouts.

[dinovelvet]

This orriay fella still asking himself the same question he was a month ago. But but but....Wlads power. Its been proven Rock was a harder hitter. Even seamus was wise enough to stand down after i posted the scientific breakdown of Rocks power.
But go ahead and argue against it, it will just give more credence to my agrument by revealing yourselves as not having the full picture.

Wlad has power but those power shots cant be thrown on the inside. So he has to have Rock standing in range where he wants him. If Rock is coming in at an angle and slipping to his right(which he does) and Wlads main weapon is his right, when he throws the distance is to big to catch him flush. When he goes to reload he gets tagged and hurt.
If Rock doesn't get the opportunity to finish then, eventually he will as Wlad has no plan B or the ability to make adjustments to prevent it from happening again.

Glass chin against cast iron fists.
It took him 12 rounds to knock out Chambers and couldn't knock out Haye at all. He's not knocking out any Rocky Marciano.

[Absolutely!]

Originally Posted by BCS8

You mean: OVERrate Wlad's mental fragility. In other words, we think that Wlad's mental composure is akin to a lump of sugar.

I'm not one of them.

I saw my man Sanders do that demolition job on Wlad, yet Klitschko still was trying to get up to fight. That takes big brass balls. Other people Sanders tagged cleanly simply sat down and waited to get counted out. So, no, I don't think Wlad is lily-livered.

Yes, I meant overrate. Sorry.

I think the way Wlad reacted to big punches in the past made it look worse than it was. His wide eyes, stumbling around etc made it look like he was completely falling apart mentally even though he always attempted to get up from every knockdown. His bigger brother on the other hand always looked like a badass in the ring. Yet it was he who quit on his stool, not Wlad.

Just think people need to look a bit beyond common perception here.

Originally Posted by BCS8

However: he is unquestionable mentally weaker than Marciano, and he unquestionably has a lesser beard. These are the 'intangibles' that are, to be fair, hard to compare against Wlad's unquestionable advantage, his size.

What I've seen going on in this thread is huge hyping of these aspects to the detriment of a genuine discussion. That's pointless. Wlad is not going to go down to the first good shot Marciano lands, and neither is Marciano so outweighed that discussion is pointless. If weight was everything, then every other boxer would be Valuev's bitch. Clearly that is not the case.

I'd say that in terms of in-ring grit and willingness to take a shot to land one Marciano is the superior. But then Wlad doesn't fight like that and has never really fought like that since he never needed to. The Rock did. But as far as breaking down mentally over the course of a fight, there's nothing to really base that on, unless you're also willing to factor in that Wlad's going to be blowing his load trying to get his man out of there. That's unrealistic to suppose.

As for the size difference, whilst a few pro-Klitschko posters are limiting their argument to that alone, it seems to me that far more pro-Marciano posters are guilty of making that assumption as a sort of straw man by bringing up big useless lumps whom Marciano battered as "proof" that Wlad's size difference alone won't pose a problem to Rock's chances. Of course it won't. But when you're as skilled and hard hitting as Wlad then it suddenly makes quite a large difference. No one wins fights on the scales, but we have weight classes for a reason, and there comes a point when all the heart in the world can't overcome a skilled and athletic larger fighter who's determined to make his advantages count.

[Seamus]

What the **** are talking about, standing down regarding Rocky's power?

Do I have early onset dementia or do you want to show me where and when this occurredn

I seriously doubt that any trainer would suggest Rocky hit harder than Wlad.

[HOUDINI]

No one Wlad beat was anywhere near Rocky Marciano. It is a fact that everyone no matter what the size Marciano beat. Its also an undisputed fact that Wlad was brutally koed three times by fighters far less than Marciano. If Purity, Brewster and Sanders can brutally ko Wlad so can Marciano. I can't see Wlad getting hit full force by Rocky and not going down in sections. Marciano however has the proven heart, courage, chin and will to win to take a shot and not give up.

[lufcrazy]

The argument hits an impasse when people refuse to acknowledge wlads skillset and see him just as a big guy.

You'd expect a great mw to beat a great fw. Hell lets imagine Hearns v Armstrong. There the weight difference is gonna be about 30 pounds come fight night. What will Armstrong do when he feels hearns jab and straight right. Remember we're not draining hearns here, he can train purely for the fight not the weight.

It's gonna be a one sided beating.

The comment about divisions being for lower weights might be fine if it wasn't for the advent of the cw division.

Rocky shouldn't really be matched with guys bigger than Liston. That's his ceiling.

aside from stamina I see no advantage he has. Wlad got hit much less, had much more reach, much more size, much more power, chin tested at a higher level, probably quicker hands. Unless people believe rocky has a titanium chin and can withstand the onslaught until wlad gasses (something he hasn't come close to doing in 7years but has definitely done in the past) he has no chance.

The sensible angle for rocky winning is he keeps low, keeps moving forward, slips wlads best shots before getting inside and not fighting out of the clinch. Making wlad do all the work whilst throwing in some body work. Probably ensuring he loses every round in the hope wlad tires. I see no other chance. A trade out will see rocky sparked out cold. If rocky fights to survive wlad wins wide on points. If rocky pushes too hard he leaves himself open. However prime for prime were talking the wlad conditioned from Peter, Byrd, Chagaev, Iggy, Thompson, Brock, Haye, Chambers: prepared to fight hard for twelve thus removing any chance Rocky has.

[dinovelvet]

Ok , so civilian's are now putting in there experiences sparring in they're local gym and how they felt pain as an argument.
This thread has just because far too stupid for me.

[Manassa]

Originally Posted by dinovelvet

This thread has just because far too stupid for me.

[Brockton Rock]

Originally Posted by Seamus

I was going to ask that, also.

The one time I sparred with a big heavy, and not a particularly good one, I thought the ****ing ceiling had fallen on my head.

Yeah I can tell by your delusional posts that you have taken more than one too many shots to the head. Give it up 'Champ'.

[dinovelvet]

Luf , retire from this thread.

Wlad CANNOT trade with anybody. Show me footage of Wlad going toe to toe with a fighter. He has no power on the inside. How does he destroy one of the greatest sluggers of all time who's hands were at their most destructive in close while having a terrible chin. Rocks eats him alive in a trade off.

You cant be taken seriously.

[Absolutely!]

Originally Posted by dinovelvet

Ok , so civilian's are now putting in there experiences sparring in they're local gym and how they felt pain as an argument.
This thread has just because far too stupid for me.

Originally Posted by dinovelvet

Have you entered the ring in your life seamus.

Originally Posted by dinovelvet

So Wlad has a better jab than Ali and Holmes now because his trainer said so? He also said he would knock Haye out in 4 rounds. It was his job to say those things. You got nothing, you cant even give your own argement on the matter. We're done here.

Originally Posted by dinovelvet

Produce the links to these articles by the best boxing observers. Prove it.

Originally Posted by dinovelvet

Is that how you judge boxing, by regurgitating everything you you read? I go by what I see, and ive also talked to many people who agree his jab is nothing special. Now dont get me wrong, its not a terrible jab, its just far from what people here say it is.

Does this bloke have any idea what he's even arguing about?