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Old 03-07-2013, 11:56 PM   #1156
MadcapMaxie
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Because he's so much more elusive than Byrd and faster and stronger than Haye.

Wow. You've really done your homework.
I think he made some decent points in that post especially regarding Wlad's stamina, he has never had anyone press him to that sort of degree that Marciano would probably do. Look at how badly Mavrovic pushed the superior Lewis to the brink and Mavrovic was a hardly a big heavyweight (Well aware he's bigger than Marciano) or ATG.

I think when he said Byrd and Haye he was alluding to the fact that Rocky isn't going to be contempt with sitting around eating jabs he'd be pressing every second of every minute in order to win, not just survive....I picked Wlad to win way back when this was only a few pages....
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Old 03-08-2013, 12:26 AM   #1157
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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I think he made some decent points in that post especially regarding Wlad's stamina, he has never had anyone press him to that sort of degree that Marciano would probably do. Look at how badly Mavrovic pushed the superior Lewis to the brink and Mavrovic was a hardly a big heavyweight (Well aware he's bigger than Marciano) or ATG.

I think when he said Byrd and Haye he was alluding to the fact that Rocky isn't going to be contempt with sitting around eating jabs he'd be pressing every second of every minute in order to win, not just survive....I picked Wlad to win way back when this was only a few pages....
Firstly, you pick one Lewis fight. Do you think that one particular fight was representative of his capabilities, or were the collected fights against Ruddock, Morrison, Briggs, Rahman rematch, Tyson, Holyfield more representative. There are nights when guys just don't have their A game. Should we, in our current comparison, use Rocky from the first Lowry fight or the ****ell fight? 98 times out of 100 Lewis shows up and beats even huge elite heavies with his jab, strength and power. In the end, that is the book on Lewis, not one night where he sleepwalked to an emphatic decision. So that's just specious logic.

Do you think that none of the professional, highly paid trainers of the highly paid top-ranked heavies Wlad has faced have ever came up with the idea of pressuring Wlad? Do you not think these same heavies, much better physically equipped than the diminutive 5 foot 10 inch, 185 pound, 67" reach Marciano, attempted to pressure Wlad. Why couldn't they achieve this? Lack of guts? Some Italian bred intangible, half olive oil, half stregheria?

Have you ever bothered in all the slobbery adulation of the Wee Son of the Abruzzi Soil to consider that Wlad actually would be throwing back leather... or further realized that he has one of the most punishing, game-changing jabs in the history of the division, the likes of which Marciano never faced and for which he was woefully inadequate in a physical sense to avoid or defuse. It's not that Wlad does some tightrope walk with his jab and ekes out decisions, either. He punishes his opponents in brutal fashion, one-sided, increasingly downhill manner, especially those who try to come toward him... and especially the smaller of his opponents.


Go ahead and think any bread line immigrant with "fegato" can be instructed to pressure Wlad and take the most prized bauble in the game. I'm sure it is a comforting scenario for many.
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Old 03-08-2013, 12:58 AM   #1158
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Marciano is way better than the guys challenging Klitschko, he would not lay back and let him control fight. The hight is possible problem, but Marciano fighting from crouch would have easier time than anyone getting inside.
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Old 03-08-2013, 05:42 AM   #1159
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

It's rather dismaying that several people here (some of whom should really know better) think that opponents just choose not to come forward against Wlad, as though sitting back and eating jab after jab till they get broken down was their actual game plan, and not a state of affairs created by Wlad himself.

Trouble with too many ****yses here is that people are just treating Wlad as a static object and not taking into account what he himself is going to do and how that will affect a fighter's normal game plan. Look at the second Brewster fight. Do you honestly think Brewster of all people would not have wanted to knock Wlad's head off again? Why then did he turn into every other Wlad opponent and eat jabs till bedtime? Because he fancied a light snack?

Rock's no doubt going to try to apply pressure, and Wlad's going to counter it with his jab. Result: Rock ends up looking like Wlad punchbag no. 14 and boxing historians on here are left scratching their heads as to why Rock didn't just "come forward more".
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Old 03-08-2013, 08:35 AM   #1160
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

What is "counter with a jab"? Wlad can throw his jab all he wants the only countering that will be going on is Rocky slipping under and to the side.
To handle a pressure fighter is to use lateral movement while thrownig uppercuts and hooks to head and body. Wlad cant do any of that and can only back up in straight lines and look to the ref to restet the tempo..
Robinson walked Basilio onto brutal shots but he just kept coming and Robinson is infinitely more skilled than Wlad. Unless Wlad can work off the backfoot and walk him on to shots he's just going to get mentally and physically broken down.
When he's not in his clear state of mind his punches, power and accuracy is going out the window and he's left facing a man composed , with an unbreakable will and determaination to win coupled with an iron beard and one punch knockout power, not to mention a tank to carry him 15 full rounds of high work rate.
Id like to see the tape where Wlad has defeated a fighter close to that description.
Its true Wlad isn't a static target either. He does come forward and will make it easier for rock to work where he wants.

Brewster was brought out of a year long injury induced retirment against the advice of his handlers by Wlad so he could claim he avenged a loss. He hadn't won in almost 3 years and was pushing 40. He fought like a zombie and a shadow of himself. The win is meaningless.
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Old 03-08-2013, 08:41 AM   #1161
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Firstly, you pick one Lewis fight. Do you think that one particular fight was representative of his capabilities, or were the collected fights against Ruddock, Morrison, Briggs, Rahman rematch, Tyson, Holyfield more representative. There are nights when guys just don't have their A game. Should we, in our current comparison, use Rocky from the first Lowry fight or the ****ell fight? 98 times out of 100 Lewis shows up and beats even huge elite heavies with his jab, strength and power. In the end, that is the book on Lewis, not one night where he sleepwalked to an emphatic decision. So that's just specious logic.

Do you think that none of the professional, highly paid trainers of the highly paid top-ranked heavies Wlad has faced have ever came up with the idea of pressuring Wlad? Do you not think these same heavies, much better physically equipped than the diminutive 5 foot 10 inch, 185 pound, 67" reach Marciano, attempted to pressure Wlad. Why couldn't they achieve this? Lack of guts? Some Italian bred intangible, half olive oil, half stregheria?

Have you ever bothered in all the slobbery adulation of the Wee Son of the Abruzzi Soil to consider that Wlad actually would be throwing back leather... or further realized that he has one of the most punishing, game-changing jabs in the history of the division, the likes of which Marciano never faced and for which he was woefully inadequate in a physical sense to avoid or defuse. It's not that Wlad does some tightrope walk with his jab and ekes out decisions, either. He punishes his opponents in brutal fashion, one-sided, increasingly downhill manner, especially those who try to come toward him... and especially the smaller of his opponents.


Go ahead and think any bread line immigrant with "fegato" can be instructed to pressure Wlad and take the most prized bauble in the game. I'm sure it is a comforting scenario for many.
You cant turn somebody into a pressure fighter over night.... Steward had Wlad avoid the only pressure fighters(Briggs and Chisora) that were around for a reason. The one he didn't avoid blew him out in 5 rounds......
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Old 03-08-2013, 09:05 AM   #1162
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

rocky has a small shot to win, got power, stamina and some defence, chisora doesn't/didn't have a hope in hell
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Old 03-08-2013, 11:50 AM   #1163
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Originally Posted by Absolutely! View Post
It's rather dismaying that several people here (some of whom should really know better) think that opponents just choose not to come forward against Wlad, as though sitting back and eating jab after jab till they get broken down was their actual game plan, and not a state of affairs created by Wlad himself.

Trouble with too many ****yses here is that people are just treating Wlad as a static object and not taking into account what he himself is going to do and how that will affect a fighter's normal game plan. Look at the second Brewster fight. Do you honestly think Brewster of all people would not have wanted to knock Wlad's head off again? Why then did he turn into every other Wlad opponent and eat jabs till bedtime? Because he fancied a light snack?

Rock's no doubt going to try to apply pressure, and Wlad's going to counter it with his jab. Result: Rock ends up looking like Wlad punchbag no. 14 and boxing historians on here are left scratching their heads as to why Rock didn't just "come forward more".
It's baffling that some observers think Wlad won all those fights, and stopped all those opponents, by default, as if just standing there and being big and lasting the rounds somehow left his opponents on the floor beaten to a pulp.

We're going to need a lot higher grade of Marciano defender here to get this ***** to a 100 pages.
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Old 03-08-2013, 12:12 PM   #1164
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Wlad knocks out that small man inside 11 rounds.
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Old 03-08-2013, 12:16 PM   #1165
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

This is the worst mismatch for Klitschko. gets killed
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Old 03-08-2013, 01:18 PM   #1166
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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This is the worst mismatch for Klitschko. gets killed
We're going to need a lot higher grade of Marciano defender here to get this ***** to a 100 pages.

Up your game.
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Old 03-08-2013, 03:02 PM   #1167
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

From what I've seen in Samuel Peters fight he really struggled with Sams constant movement(Rocky),Pressure(Rocky),Leg Spring(Rocky) and he wasn't able to establish his fight i.e Make the first move and control the fight. Sam was tired after 2 rounds Rocky wouldn't. Constant pressure causes Wladimir to panic.
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Old 03-08-2013, 03:10 PM   #1168
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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From what I've seen in Samuel Peters fight he really struggled with Sams constant movement(Rocky),Pressure(Rocky),Leg Spring(Rocky) and he wasn't able to establish his fight i.e Make the first move and control the fight. Sam was tired after 2 rounds Rocky wouldn't. Constant pressure causes Wladimir to panic.
Sam Peter was much bigger than Marciano
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The difference between Rocky and Peter would be 60 pounds...
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Old 03-08-2013, 03:13 PM   #1169
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Sam Peter was much bigger than Marciano
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The difference between Rocky and Peter would be 60 pounds...
Which would make him a even smaller elusive target. Good point.
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Old 03-08-2013, 03:20 PM   #1170
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Which would make him a even smaller elusive target. Good point.
There's a reason Mayweather isn't fighting Wladimir.

If an ex welter can drop Marciano so can Wlad
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