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Old 03-11-2013, 01:12 PM   #1246
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Old 03-11-2013, 05:09 PM   #1247
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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i wouldnt **** with him...
Today, I learned that I have amazing, physics defying hair, and I scream a lot.

Muscles are about right though

And, no, I don't think there is "valor" in winning bending the rules, or whatever. But I do know its a fight, and **** gets done in there to win a fight, or outpoint your opponent, or whatever you have to do.

To quote George Foreman, "The referee is the most important man in the ring other than the two fighters." What he allows dictates the type of fight that can be fought. I fought a guy about four years ago who absolutely froze with a glove in his face. Straight up froze. So I stuck out my jab, and left it there, in his face, to throw big right hands that just detonated on this guys chin. Dropped him twice. Then the referee started warning me for doing it. Long story short, had the referee let me stiff-arm, I'd have had the guy in the 1st or 2nd. Because I couldn't, I had a harder time "freezing" the guy, and he hung around.

To say that what type of fighting, holding, rough housing tactics are allowed or disallowed by the official doesn't have a bearing on how a fight is allowed to unfold is poor idiocy, and the mark of a guy who doesn't know **** about being in the ring. Wlad has an octopus imitation that allows him to completely neutralize smaller men. If he's allowed to use it at will, he is suddenly MUCH harder to deal with. Period. Ali neutralized Frazier very effectively with holding in their rematch, and when it wasn't tolerated in their rubber match, Joe was able to get to work. Just one example of many.

Rocky also needed some distance to punch. A short puncher, he was not: He wound up, and at times, swung wide. Him getting wrapped up when he gets in range to do any work is gonna stop him from doing work. I also see many low blows, because he'd be a near midget fighting a giant, and I'm told working the body in those situations isn't as easy as it sounds like it would be. That might help him, though, with a laissez-faire ref.
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Old 03-11-2013, 05:24 PM   #1248
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Wow. 95 pages now.

Wlad Vs Mickey Walker anyone? Would he land a right hand as good as Schmeling? No way would he be able to contain 'The Toy Bulldog' in a clinch, Walker would rough him up.
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Old 03-11-2013, 05:50 PM   #1249
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
Today, I learned that I have amazing, physics defying hair, and I scream a lot.

Muscles are about right though

And, no, I don't think there is "valor" in winning bending the rules, or whatever. But I do know its a fight, and **** gets done in there to win a fight, or outpoint your opponent, or whatever you have to do.

To quote George Foreman, "The referee is the most important man in the ring other than the two fighters." What he allows dictates the type of fight that can be fought. I fought a guy about four years ago who absolutely froze with a glove in his face. Straight up froze. So I stuck out my jab, and left it there, in his face, to throw big right hands that just detonated on this guys chin. Dropped him twice. Then the referee started warning me for doing it. Long story short, had the referee let me stiff-arm, I'd have had the guy in the 1st or 2nd. Because I couldn't, I had a harder time "freezing" the guy, and he hung around.

To say that what type of fighting, holding, rough housing tactics are allowed or disallowed by the official doesn't have a bearing on how a fight is allowed to unfold is poor idiocy, and the mark of a guy who doesn't know **** about being in the ring. Wlad has an octopus imitation that allows him to completely neutralize smaller men. If he's allowed to use it at will, he is suddenly MUCH harder to deal with. Period. Ali neutralized Frazier very effectively with holding in their rematch, and when it wasn't tolerated in their rubber match, Joe was able to get to work. Just one example of many.

Rocky also needed some distance to punch. A short puncher, he was not: He wound up, and at times, swung wide. Him getting wrapped up when he gets in range to do any work is gonna stop him from doing work. I also see many low blows, because he'd be a near midget fighting a giant, and I'm told working the body in those situations isn't as easy as it sounds like it would be. That might help him, though, with a laissez-faire ref.
Wlad's definitely benefited from a ref who doesn't penalise his excessive clinching, but even under neutral rules he still mercs Rocky with that jab and footwork. Fighters with much quicker feet that Rock have found it extremely hard to close distance with Wlad, and Rocky was a guy who liked to set his feet when he threw, minimising his general mobility. Wlad would have to do his best Helenius impression to give Rocky a chance here, and that would be taking away almost all of what makes him the fighter he is.
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Old 03-11-2013, 05:57 PM   #1250
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Jesus, anybody remember Lennox Lewis' favorite combo? Grab the back of his opponent's neck and throw an uppercut?

And to accuse Waldo of breaking the rules while turning a blind eye to Marciano's head butting and elbows is just a proclamation of ignorance and/or absolute bias.
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Old 03-11-2013, 05:58 PM   #1251
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Wlad's definitely benefited from a ref who doesn't penalise his excessive clinching, but even under neutral rules he still mercs Rocky with that jab and footwork. Fighters with much quicker feet that Rock have found it extremely hard to close distance with Wlad, and Rocky was a guy who liked to set his feet when he threw, minimising his general mobility. Wlad would have to do his best Helenius impression to give Rocky a chance here, and that would be taking away almost all of what makes him the fighter he is.
I do agree. Wlad isn't an aggressive fighter, but when he has a stationary opponents(Rocky doesn't have great head movement, and what defense he does have is countered by his tremendous aggression, which always puts him in harms way) like Tony Thompson, Mormeck, Chambers, he opens up. He be throwing punches at Rocky, landing them at range, and probably throwing him around with his left arm. I don't think Rocky can take many big right hands and left hooks on the button from a colossal puncher like Klitschko.

I do NOT think we can ignore that he'd be a cruiserweight in the ring in this fight. A cruiserweight with Rocky's style is just gonna have a lot of trouble. He's obviously better than Mormeck in just about every category, and by quite some distance, but it is worth noting that fighters like Mormeck and Chambers, Ibragimov and Chagaev(Who were both bigger and longer than Marciano) couldn't do ANYTHING; They couldn't be competitive, they couldn't land punches, they couldn't dictate the pace, they couldn't do squat. Rocky, though better than they are, I don't think fares a whole lot better because of similar physical limitations. I see it as just a step too far.

Rocky Marciano is a great heavyweight, top 10 all time, in heavyweight HISTORY, but the division outgrew him, and he wouldn't even compete in it today. He'd be the greatest cruiserweight of all time, though. Would have loved to see him and young Holyfield duke it out.
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Old 03-11-2013, 06:00 PM   #1252
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Jesus, anybody remember Lennox Lewis' favorite combo? Grab the back of his opponent's neck and throw an uppercut?

And to accuse Waldo of breaking the rules while turning a blind eye to Marciano's head butting and elbows is just a proclamation of ignorance and/or absolute bias.
Marciano's elbow follow through after the left hook is one of the best in history. Amazing 1-2 strike. He'd clean your clock with the left hand, then slam you in the face with the left elbow, clean as ****.

And the low blows. So many low blows.

Dirty fighting, fouling, bending the rules is as part of boxing as punching. If it wasn't, referees wouldn't make such an impact, which they do, every fight. It's part of the game. Play with what you have, find out how far you can push your official, and get to work.
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Old 03-11-2013, 06:07 PM   #1253
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Marciano's elbow follow through after the left hook is one of the best in history. Amazing 1-2 strike. He'd clean your clock with the left hand, then slam you in the face with the left elbow, clean as ****.

And the low blows. So many low blows.

Dirty fighting, fouling, bending the rules is as part of boxing as punching. If it wasn't, referees wouldn't make such an impact, which they do, every fight. It's part of the game. Play with what you have, find out how far you can push your official, and get to work.
Rewatched the first Walcott fight last week and what really surprised me was the amount of blatant headbutts. If he and Holyfield ever faced off they would have had to wear gloves on their foreheads.
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Old 03-11-2013, 06:11 PM   #1254
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Rewatched the first Walcott fight last week and what really surprised me was the amount of blatant headbutts. If he and Holyfield ever faced off they would have had to wear gloves on their foreheads.
Rocky butted the **** out of Walcott. Some of them blatantly intentional. Really started to swell up Joe's eyes, too. For all we know, that loss of vision from cranial striking might have helped Rocky set up the knockout.

Boxing is a sport, yes, but it has elements of a fight. Fouling is such an integral part of it. Rocky fouls twice as much as Wlad does, and he doesn't commit grey area fouls, like holding; An uptight referee might DQ Rocky before he even warns Wlad. Take Wlad's holding from his toolbox? Fine. Take 20% of Marciano's offense from his. Both guys were different kinds of rough. I have no problem with it. I have no problem with dirty fighters in the ring, either; It's the refs job to contain that. If he wont, thats fine, because I'm not an idiot boy scout and I've learned plenty of shady **** to dish back, just like Jersey Joe, with some shots to the hip, some shouldering, some stepping HARD on Rock's toes(I'm remembering something like a near stomp in the 10th.)
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:48 PM   #1255
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

It was Marciano who had vision in only one eye before he ko'd Walcot , not the other way around.
Rock set up the ko by relentlessly walking him down and plugging Joe with one of the hardest shots ever thrown.
This is the first time im hearing about Rock being a serial fouler.
Because you cant come to terms with Wlad being the fighter he is only by excessive fouling you want to tarnish Marciano with the same brush?? Pathetic.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:53 PM   #1256
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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It was Marciano who had vision in only one eye before he ko'd Walcot , not the other way around.
Rock set up the ko by relentlessly walking him down and plugging Joe with one of the hardest shots ever thrown.
This is the first time im hearing about Rock being a serial fouler.
Because you cant come to terms with Wlad being the fighter he is only by excessive fouling you want to tarnish Marciano with the same brush?? Pathetic.
Marciano followed through with his elbow A LOT. none if this affects the outcome. Wlad wins under almost any modern rule set with nearly any ref
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:59 PM   #1257
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

The guy said it was Walcot who was blinded , hes a 100% Wlad nuthugger and not objective in any way.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:59 PM   #1258
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Originally Posted by dinovelvet View Post
It was Marciano who had vision in only one eye before he ko'd Walcot , not the other way around.
Rock set up the ko by relentlessly walking him down and plugging Joe with one of the hardest shots ever thrown.
This is the first time im hearing about Rock being a serial fouler.
Because you cant come to terms with Wlad being the fighter he is only by excessive fouling you want to tarnish Marciano with the same brush?? Pathetic.
Marciano was a far worse fouler with his headbutts, elbows and low blows To disregard this you are either intellectually dishonest or a total ****ing moron.
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Old 03-12-2013, 04:24 AM   #1259
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Nobody ever said Rocky wasn't also hurting in there. He got fouled too.

But he also spoon fed his forehead to Walcott quite a bit. It was rough and tumble in there. If a referee is going to allow Rocky to abuse somebody like that, and be called "fair and neutral"(I'm gonna simply call that lax officiating, or letting the fighters fight), he's gonna let Wlad clutch to his hearts' content. No sane referee I've ever met is gonna scold or deduct a guy for holding and let the other guy butt, elbow, low blow, and all that **** in the same vein. It'd be a one way ticket to a protest, and **** like that DOES get overturned in this sport.

Of course, you could also be that guy in Ottke-Reid, who penalized Reid for punching Ottke in the face, but I think we're assuming that guy ISN'T in the ring for this one, and if he was, he'd probably favor Wlad (European).
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Old 03-12-2013, 04:38 AM   #1260
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Wladimir has to wear his opponents down or they quit on him because they cant cope for his power to be effective. He wouldn't wear Rock down(Joe Louis nails him right on the chin) his constant moving,hard punching,superior footwork(Wlad has never fought a man who was capable of launching himself from a squat crouch). Rocky is the superior fighter who are you kidding? Size?? He was outweighed by most of his opponents. He fought tougher competition who despite taking a beating never once quit because of it.
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