Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

[Boggle]

Originally Posted by Seamus

The Doors are just plain fucking horrible... a third rate version of Love.

Hey, I'm trying to steer this young lad on the right path, not shit on his hopes and dreams. That said, Forever Changes shits on any album by The Doors. Literally and figuratively. When the smoke clears, orriray, you'll wonder... "'successful hills are here to stay?' ...what the fuck was I thinking?"

[dinovelvet]

What about all the guys who reported on Rockys power, including Louis , Walcot and Ali. You taking the words of Eddie Chambers over them?

Being conservative in his attack will prove detrimental against Rocky and not a liberty he can afford to take.

[Jorodz]

Originally Posted by dinovelvet

What about all the guys who reported on Rockys power, including Louis , Walcot and Ali. You taking the words of Eddie Chambers over them?

Being conservative in his attack will prove detrimental against Rocky and not a liberty he can afford to take.

yeah, he had power. a LOT of power. not as much as wlad. but your statement that wlad doesn't have one punch power is just false.

he is conservative in his attack and it avoids the war you contend will take place. so if wlad is conservation, he gets knocked out? if wlad goes all out, he gets knocked out?

well i guess wlad is fucked unless he jabs rocky's face in for 8 rounds, wears him down with holds, and lands a dynamite straight right to end it. which is more likely.

[MagnaNasakki]

Wlad has knocked out more men than Rocky has. They both did a pretty good job of concussively kayoing people, too. They each have a huge CV of concussive kayos.

They are both very effective puncher's.

Wlad will have a MUCH easier time hit Rocky then Rocky will him. That's kind of the basis for the pro-Wlad analysis, if you've been reading. Gimme a long jab and straight hand anyday; It's the easiest combination to land if you have the range and speed in boxing.

Fact is, and it is a FACT: Marciano primarily used accumulation and beatings to finish fights. Wlad primarily got his stoppages with big knockdowns and concussive knockouts. If effect on opponent is the measure, Wlad is clearly the harder puncher. Go through each of their fights on film, it's there to be seen.

Rocky only has a handful of true stoppages off of one punch. Wlad has about ten. To say that he doesn't have power is ludicrous. He hit just as hard, if not harder, than Lennox Lewis and David Tua. Did they have one punch power by your definition?

[dinovelvet]

Rocky was NOT that easy to hit.
If Wlad punches down on and misses then gets cought by Rock punching from a crouch with a full body'd thrust he's getting put to sleep on the spot.

[Jorodz]

Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki

Wlad has knocked out more men than Rocky has. They both did a pretty good job of concussively kayoing people, too. They each have a huge CV of concussive kayos.

They are both very effective puncher's.

Wlad will have a MUCH easier time hit Rocky then Rocky will him. That's kind of the basis for the pro-Wlad analysis, if you've been reading. Gimme a long jab and straight hand anyday; It's the easiest combination to land if you have the range and speed in boxing.

Fact is, and it is a FACT: Marciano primarily used accumulation and beatings to finish fights. Wlad primarily got his stoppages with big knockdowns and concussive knockouts. If effect on opponent is the measure, Wlad is clearly the harder puncher. Go through each of their fights on film, it's there to be seen.

Rocky only has a handful of true stoppages off of one punch. Wlad has about ten. To say that he doesn't have power is ludicrous. He hit just as hard, if not harder, than Lennox Lewis and David Tua. Did they have one punch power by your definition?

wait wait...the taller man with the SIGNIFICANTLY longer reach and the all time great jab, who also happens to be far superior technicality with a straighter right hand and much better acuracy will have an easier time landing?!

that sounds reasonable and based on facts...dino is allergic to that you insensitive prick

[Jorodz]

Originally Posted by dinovelvet

Rocky was NOT that easy to hit.
If Wlad punches down on and misses then gets cought by Rock punching from a crouch with a full body'd thrust he's getting put to sleep on the spot.

so if wlad, the technically superior fighter, swings and misses cartoonishly and throws himself (amazingly) off balance and completely vulnerable AND rocky leaps 8 inches with full force and nails wlad with a right hand, he'll knock him out?

in this scenario, why doesn't he just throw a fucking fireball or sonic boom?

[dinovelvet]

Marciano hit on the move for the most part, when he sat down on his punches and delivered them his opponents were ruined and almost killed.
Wlad needs to set up his big shots from a distance. He does not have that power in close where Rock will be unloading on him.

[obviousalt]

Originally Posted by dinovelvet

Wlad doesn't have one punch knockout power. Most of the time it comes from accumulated punching.
Once Rock lands a body shot his strenght will be decreased.
He WILL be in a brawl and the tougher man with a better chin and harder punch in bunches will win.

And Dinovelvet is losing his stamina or the accumulated damage if finally taking its toll.

[KidDynamite]

Originally Posted by dinovelvet

Marciano hit on the move for the most part, when he sat down on his punches and delivered them his opponents were ruined and almost killed.
Wlad needs to set up his big shots from a distance. He does not have that power in close where Rock will be unloading on him.

dude where is marciano gonna hit wlad??? on the kneecap?? the balls??

[obviousalt]

Originally Posted by KidDynamite

dude where is marciano gonna hit wlad??? on the kneecap?? the balls??

Yea, he will KO Wlad on the balls because Marciano doesn't like hurting others and the ref would be ok with that.

[PetethePrince]

I'm a big Marciano fan as most know. I'd favor Wlad easily. I think it's too much of a physical obstacle to overcome. Of course, a neutral referee is more important than Marciano's power as far as I'm concerned. Maybe then Rocky could have a chance at winning one or two times out of ten, if that at all.

I'd favor Wlad over Dempsey, too. I'm not ready to relinquish that position with Frazier, though. Let me pick the referee and Frazier wins more times than not. Nothing rose-colored about that. Wlad actually have a better chance against Ali than Frazier. Styles might suggest so.

The Eddie Chambers bit doesn't mean all that much to me either, sorry. Not that I disrespect a professional fighter like Eddie's position, but I don't know enough. I mean, almost every fighters picks the fighter of their generation to win fantasy fights. Hell, it's not a fighter thing but a generational thing. So it can almost be the opposite effect of nostalgia. I'd have to hear more about his position on other fighters against his generation to get a better perspective.

[lufcrazy]

My main issue is guys like Dempsey and Louis actually have victories over championship calibre super heavyweights so they have more in the argument.

I think Frazier has the perfect style to beat Wlad with his bob and weave and a leaping left hook.

Rocky, I'll happily agree that if he can last longer than 5, and I'm not talking shell or back foot fighting, but making wlad work and making him pay for it, then yeah rockys chances increase with every round, but no way can a man so small take punches off a man so big.

[obviousalt]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

My main issue is guys like Dempsey and Louis actually have victories over championship calibre super heavyweights so they have more in the argument.

I think Frazier has the perfect style to beat Wlad with his bob and weave and a leaping left hook.

Rocky, I'll happily agree that if he can last longer than 5, and I'm not talking shell or back foot fighting, but making wlad work and making him pay for it, then yeah rockys chances increase with every round, but no way can a man so small take punches off a man so big.

If Wlad is allowed to do the same as Foreman (pushing Frazier away), Frazier would really be a sitting duck.

[PetethePrince]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

My main issue is guys like Dempsey and Louis actually have victories over championship calibre super heavyweights so they have more in the argument.

Yeah, I'd ever so slightly favor Dempsey's chances over Marciano's but that chance is increasingly more marginal by the day because styles is an often overused crux for when quality is clearly lacking. Same goes for the bigger men in regards to Dempsey. I'd see no other scenario than Marciano demolishing Firpo, who would just be a bigger target for Marciano to abuse. It just may take a little longer. I'm not going to argue with Louis when he beat many very good big men and had plenty of quality. Louis was simply a much better fighter than Dempsey in my view.

I think Frazier has the perfect style to beat Wlad with his bob and weave and a leaping left hook.

Yep. Tyson has the best attributes and a serving style. I'm 100% convinced Tyson wins ten times out of ten at his absolute peak. Frazier has the most ideal style. The biggest concerns would be his durability and the referee. Those concerns won't even matter with Tyson, however.

Rocky, I'll happily agree that if he can last longer than 5, and I'm not talking shell or back foot fighting, but making wlad work and making him pay for it, then yeah rockys chances increase with every round, but no way can a man so small take punches off a man so big.

It's a huge IF but a sensible one if it's somehow physically possible. If anyone could prove such physical disparities aren't everything, it's surely a legend like Marciano. Still almost the work of Hollywood movie-making, almost.