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Old 03-16-2013, 01:05 AM   #1411
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
And lastly Marciano was hurt as **** in the 10th against Walcott, ready to go in fact. But he was an animal, no doubt.
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] This video should start at 30:17 the beginning of the 10th round, please show me where Marciano was "hurt as ****" and "ready to go in fact"...cos I don't see Walcott land much in fact he just made him miss and let Marciano take by landing some good rights.

Edit: Stupid ****ing youtube, well anyway put it at 30:17 which is the start of the 10th and please show me because I can't see it.
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Old 03-16-2013, 03:03 AM   #1412
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Foreman was great at keeping his left in front of his opponents face while the right was on its way. Wlad could have learned from that.
He does it all the time. In fact, better than Foreman. And not even as transparently illicit as when LL holds with the left and shoots with the right.
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Old 03-16-2013, 03:21 AM   #1413
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

I actually think holy could beat Wlad. He was able to hah his way in against every super heavy he fought due to his speed and mobility advantage. Plus his punch variety in the pocket is supreme.

He could do wlad before 5 round.

In fact the only man I would pick to outbox wlad would be Ali. Anyone else has to stop him.
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Old 03-16-2013, 03:22 AM   #1414
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Wlad's 1-2 is perfect. Yes, perfect. As in, I have not seen a heavyweight throw that combination better. He hooks off the jab very, very well. His lead left hook is very powerful and quick, despite often being telegraphed. He moves his feet to keep distance masterfully.

Problem is, that's all there is. It's extremely formidable, extremely hard to get around, but when you are around it, you have your big chances. No inside game. No uppercuts. Body punching is so sporadic as to be a non-factor. Only throws in combination with a badly hurt opponent or a sitting target(Byrd II, Wach, Brock).

The other thing that hurts him against guys like Tyson is his tendency to overwhelm or wait. If he doesn't get you with his opening tries in the first 4 rounds, he tends to settle in rather than push the issue. He was much better against Wach, trying to finish the whole 12 rounds(His roided out opponent just would not go), but until I see more of it, I'll say his trend is what he's shown in Rahman, Ibragimov, Thompson I...If you hang around, he lets you hang around. If Tyson DIDN'T take Wlad out early, for the sake of example, he'd have a chance to do it late. Same with Louis.

In the end, I think it all comes down to the jab and the clinch. If you have a way past or through the jab, you get in. If you have a way to prevent, outfight, or jump the clinch(Frazier would jump the hell out of the clinch, and I think Louis could too if he focused on that effort), then, you have a massive punching bag; There is nothing else. Thing is, you get stuck behind that jab, and you are probably getting outjabbed. Then comes the right, and if necessary, the big left, and that's just trouble for anybody. If you can't stop the holding, you are going to keep getting reset at his preferred range, and eventually, he gets a chance to establish his jab all over again, and you have to contend with an incredible drain on your legs and lungs fighting all that mauling.

It's a solvable puzzle, but if you've boxed, you know it's a damn difficult one. Guys like Tyson and Ali have the hand and the footspeed to accomplish it, guys like Holmes and Liston have the very rare chance to outjab him, Lewis can outfight him because he's just as big and strong and ten times as mean, and Frazier has the educated pressure and ability to work around holding. Louis has the ability to punch short and still cause tremendous damage, even though it seems obvious to me he'd be outgunned outside, I think he'd find his target in no-man's land eventually and Joe Louis rarely needed a second try.

Wlad belongs. He might not be the best heavyweight h2h, or anything close, but he's a massive headache to deal with. Just a dangerous pain in the ass.
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Old 03-16-2013, 04:55 AM   #1415
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Stay, Seamus. It'd really suck if you left too.

And RockySplitNose! I dont see you around much anymore, your posts are absolutely class! Miss em.

I think Moorer has the wrong southpaw style and a size problem against Wlad, to be honest. A lot of his sharp power punch is focused in tight right hands, really great short hooks, excellent uppercuts, a jab that kicks like a mule. Wlad's half a foot reach advantage would really hurt him badly with that. He'd have to lunge into left hands with no reliable way to set them up, which stands to reason that he'd, eventually, settle right in front of him like he did Foreman and Holyfield twice. Then, the straight right hand ends his night. If he stays cagey and discplined(Rare for him, but he had a couple performances where he stayed on the plan all night), I see an Ibragimov fight at best for him, a Chagaev fight at worst.

Moorer is underrated, but Wlad is an awful styles and gifts clash for him.
Thanks for the response magna - most of what you say carries a lot of weight with me - I always liked Moorer - thought he was brilliant - reminded me of a southpaw/mirror image of Joe Louis - he was real methodical and correct with his technique and was a real good hitter too for a light heavy - thought he was doing a number on foreman until the one in a million shot - like you say though I think Vlad wild be horrible for him style wise
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Old 03-16-2013, 05:09 AM   #1416
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Thanks for the response magna - most of what you say carries a lot of weight with me - I always liked Moorer - thought he was brilliant - reminded me of a southpaw/mirror image of Joe Louis - he was real methodical and correct with his technique and was a real good hitter too for a light heavy - thought he was doing a number on foreman until the one in a million shot - like you say though I think Vlad wild be horrible for him style wise
Moorer was brilliant the night he fought Foreman, almost perfect. Goes to show, though, that you don't stand still in front of a big punching guy, or really any trained fighter. Moorer admired his work for 30 seconds. Big mistake.

Had Moorer stayed disciplined and completed his one-sided clinic of George, won 10-2, 9-3(I think those would have been the probable scores), been confident, he could have reigned for a bit. A confident, disciplined, well conditioned Moorer like we saw for 9 rounds is a TOUGH assignment.

But, as we agree, Wlad is toxic style-wise for him. Moorer has no way to reach him with the big shots, not sure method to control the jab battle, and a tendency to walk into big right hands.
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Old 03-16-2013, 05:43 AM   #1417
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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I think if Wlad has the outside game of Ricardo Lopez he would be "unbeatable"...(Nobody is unbeatable)
But that's just my love for Lopez his style
Lopez was pretty damn good everywhere. Love watching him fight. No weaknesses, all strengths. Only thing you could say he didn't have was top flight athletic ability and strength for his size.
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Old 03-16-2013, 05:56 AM   #1418
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
I actually think holy could beat Wlad. He was able to hah his way in against every super heavy he fought due to his speed and mobility advantage. Plus his punch variety in the pocket is supreme.

He could do wlad before 5 round.

In fact the only man I would pick to outbox wlad would be Ali. Anyone else has to stop him.
I think Holmes would be able to out box him too.

If you have power and fast hands then you have a great chance.
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Old 03-16-2013, 06:01 AM   #1419
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

I think what you've all been missing is that Klitschko always folds under pressure and has a horrible glass jaw and Marciano only beat up old former light heavyweights and his arms wouldn't even enable him to wipe his own **** without being a contortionist. I say they both lose in this one by 3rd to 14th round stoppage. And that's being generous.
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Old 03-16-2013, 07:10 AM   #1420
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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I see what you're saying I just dont like the assumption that rocky could beat a bigger man when he never did. Foster was a great lhw but against heavyweight fighters he looked feeble. Stepping up in weight is something should be proved and not taken for granted imo.

Frazier and Tyson both have a huge stylistic ad advantage and should both do wlad before the fifth. Louis could take longer because he's more patient but the minute wlad tires and drops his hands Louis will **** his world up.

If Rocky can take the shots I'd favour him because I don't think a man of Wlad's build is designed for twelve hard rounds. As he fades Rocky wouldn't and his shots would do more damage but that's not the likelihood for me. I see it being a similar story to the chag fight in that Rocky never gets past the jab and is felled by the first big right Wlad throws. Maybe I will give Rocky more of a chance than I did at the start due to his conditioning but he's still the underdog in my books. Definitely a live dog however.
Chag was hit by right hands countless times, somethimes he eat the right hand lunging in where the surge of engery on impact was double what most other guys got but he managed to carry on.......What makes you think Rock is going to fell on the first right hand he takes.....What decent fighter has Wlad ever one punch knocked out?...................Chag was not a great boxer. He had no idea how to cut off the ring and kept plodding forward head first.... What didn't work for him doesn't mean sucess wont come to anybody else.....
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Old 03-16-2013, 08:26 AM   #1421
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Chag was hit by right hands countless times, somethimes he eat the right hand lunging in where the surge of engery on impact was double what most other guys got but he managed to carry on.......What makes you think Rock is going to fell on the first right hand he takes.....What decent fighter has Wlad ever one punch knocked out?...................Chag was not a great boxer. He had no idea how to cut off the ring and kept plodding forward head first.... What didn't work for him doesn't mean sucess wont come to anybody else.....
not seen it for a while but didn't wlad drop him early on?

I think that was my point. his jab and 1-2 was immense.
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Old 03-16-2013, 08:46 AM   #1422
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
The first thing every trainer talks about regarding Wlad is his footwork. Sorry, it's his best tool.

And yes, I pick Tyson over Waldo , tho it would get interesting if it went longer than 5 as the punishmennt Wlad is shipping would start to take its toll. Why does everyone ignore the Insane amount of damage that 1-2 do over a few rounds?

Where was Earnie Shaver's power when he was KO'd? I only repeat what trainers and opponents say. Of there is someone more qualified to guage Wlad's power let me know.

Wach ate a **** ton of hard shots. He's huge, strong and for the time iron chiined dude. One thing about Wlad's power is that he doesn't hide his shots well. Foreman was great at keeping his left in front of his opponents face while the right was on its way. Wlad could have learned from that.

And lastly Marciano was hurt as **** in the 10th against Walcott, ready to go in fact. But he was an animal, no doubt.
Wait, You're suggesting Rocky over 49fights was only hurt in one round in one fight? I rest my case.

Lol at how you cling onto other peoples opinion.

Wach oh ye ye ah uh ah uh yea yea of course

Foreman(And Holmes too I think) said Frazier beats Klitschko.
Ali said Marciano was better then Frazier.
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Old 03-16-2013, 08:49 AM   #1423
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Originally Posted by Boxed Ears View Post
I think what you've all been missing is that Klitschko always folds under pressure and has a horrible glass jaw and Marciano only beat up old former light heavyweights and his arms wouldn't even enable him to wipe his own **** without being a contortionist. I say they both lose in this one by 3rd to 14th round stoppage. And that's being generous.
Does the ref then declare himself the winner?
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Old 03-16-2013, 09:16 AM   #1424
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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not seen it for a while but didn't wlad drop him early on?

I think that was my point. his jab and 1-2 was immense.
Thats all he has is a 1-2 and against great fighters thats not enough....Holyfield by sidestepping, waeving in and under, countering, slipping, would have a field day expoiting his one dimensional style.....Ali would pepper his face with combinations faster than he could throw his jab........Wlad got no head or upper body movement whatsoever and the fact he's not proven at Elite level cant be disputed.....People say he's one of the best h2h. He went real life h2h with Purity , Brewster and Sanders and got brutally undone.
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Old 03-16-2013, 09:24 AM   #1425
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Thats all he has is a 1-2 and against great fighters thats not enough....Holyfield by sidestepping, waeving in and under, countering, slipping, would have a field day expoiting his one dimensional style.....Ali would pepper his face with combinations faster than he could throw his jab........Wlad got no head or upper body movement whatsoever and the fact he's not proven at Elite level cant be disputed.....People say he's one of the best h2h. He went real life h2h with Purity , Brewster and Sanders and got brutally undone.
i pick both holy and ali to beat him.

also he proved he had upper body movement against haye, quite a lot of shots he avoided due to good movement.
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