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Old 07-26-2014, 06:24 AM   #1
Entaowed
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Default Harry Greb at his Greatest.

I have been reading about Harry Greb a bit thanks to this forum.
He seems an almos mythical character. Extremely fast & a swarmer, unreal workrate, excellent chin & endurance. Fought people at many weights, beat HWs way outweighing him. For years early then completely blind in one eye from a '21 boxing injury. Not a power puncher due to never getting set much, just a human windmill of punches with great footspeed. Gave Dempsey great workouts & the planned bout never came off. Fought everyone, beat many champions & defacto champions, never drew a color line.

So take Harry Greb as his very peak at each division. Allow him no dirty tactics (though also robbed in some bouts). At his peak & fighting guys of the same size or division, from MW (as against Mickey Walker) through LHW, name the boxers in each division-SMW fine too-who would be favored against peak Greb. Oh, to keep it fair & accurate, you must consider real fight day weights, not later weight drained then heavier at bout time.

Now he was supremely motivated, but clearly had outliar genetics.
About 300 fights, even given the years, seems suurprising no film of him fighting.

SHOULD he be compared to MWs in head to head competitions in many cases, since they were able to come in heavier during fights?
After all we must consider equal conditions.

WHEN did earlier weigh ins become the norm?
Where do you place him in a P4P list?

For them & for extra credit, what are the best guys who are modern CW size that greb would defeat, even, say, early 170's against guys fighting i10 or more lbs. heavier. Would he get Jones, Hearns, Holyfield, Hopkins? Most did not think he could take Rocky, though some gave him a chance...

It is tricky since there were less divisions then.
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Old 07-26-2014, 07:14 AM   #2
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Default Re: Harry Greb at his Greatest.

He was a big midleweight for his day. He would probably have found a 168lb division well suited to him, if such a category had existed. It is hard to answer head to head questions with no film, but I think he would have been a serious problem for anybody under 200lbs.
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Old 07-26-2014, 11:13 AM   #3
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Default Re: Harry Greb at his Greatest.

Harry Greb was most likely the most amazing fighter who ever lived. Consider this
feat..
In 1925, [one year before Greb died] a shopworn, half blind Greb with about 295 tough bouts tackled the great prime Toy Bulldog Mickey Walker at MSG. Greb on the morning of the bout,was over the 160 pound MW limit...So what did he do, rather than call the bout off, Greb in a blazing July 2 sun raced around Central Park twice ,and with just a little
bit of orange punch came in the fight that evening at about 158 lbs, and still have the
stamina to whip the tar out of Mickey Walker, whilst finishing the 15th round very strong..
His like we will never see again...
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Old 07-26-2014, 02:21 PM   #4
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Default Re: Harry Greb at his Greatest.

The man was a maniac in the ring add that to supremely talented and conditioned and you have a fighter for all time. Unfortunately no footage of him exists, but his record is one of the top 2-3 records ever assembled.
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Old 07-26-2014, 06:53 PM   #5
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Default Re: Harry Greb at his Greatest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by burt bienstock View Post
Harry Greb was most likely the most amazing fighter who ever lived. Consider this
feat..
In 1925, [one year before Greb died] a shopworn, half blind Greb with about 295 tough bouts tackled the great prime Toy Bulldog Mickey Walker at MSG. Greb on the morning of the bout,was over the 160 pound MW limit...So what did he do, rather than call the bout off, Greb in a blazing July 2 sun raced around Central Park twice ,and with just a little
bit of orange punch came in the fight that evening at about 158 lbs, and still have the
stamina to whip the tar out of Mickey Walker, whilst finishing the 15th round very strong..
His like we will never see again...
That means Harry ran between 10-12 miles and then went on to fight non-stop for 15 against one of the toughest brawlers of all time and win going away. Good gravy what a fighter!*
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Old 07-26-2014, 07:36 PM   #6
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Default Re: Harry Greb at his Greatest.

The man with the unbeatable style. He drowned his opponents under a wave of punches. No film, no problem. Who gives one shit how the punches got there—they always did.

He is the martial in martial arts.
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Old 07-26-2014, 07:56 PM   #7
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Default Re: Harry Greb at his Greatest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by burt bienstock View Post
Harry Greb was most likely the most amazing fighter who ever lived. Consider this
feat..
In 1925, [one year before Greb died] a shopworn, half blind Greb with about 295 tough bouts tackled the great prime Toy Bulldog Mickey Walker at MSG. Greb on the morning of the bout,was over the 160 pound MW limit...So what did he do, rather than call the bout off, Greb in a blazing July 2 sun raced around Central Park twice ,and with just a little
bit of orange punch came in the fight that evening at about 158 lbs, and still have the
stamina to whip the tar out of Mickey Walker, whilst finishing the 15th round very strong..
His like we will never see again...
Bullshit. Never happened.
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Old 07-26-2014, 08:48 PM   #8
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Default Re: Harry Greb at his Greatest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by klompton2 View Post
Bullshit. Never happened.
Why is it K, that I knew your missile that my post that I submitted
about Greb, would be forthcoming ? NO ONE even YOU ,can know every minute detail of Harry Greb's life... I read this info I posted, in an article
from a magazine in the 1930s...And yes I also read that the beautiful
Olive Thomas was having dinner with Harry Greb in the 1920s.
So sue me...
P.S. So call me a liar as you once did when I swore that I saw the Ray Robinson /Bobby Dykes #2 bout in Bklyn NY in the early 1950s...I do not lie sir...
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Old 07-26-2014, 10:13 PM   #9
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Default Re: Harry Greb at his Greatest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by burt bienstock View Post
Why is it K, that I knew your missile that my post that I submitted
about Greb, would be forthcoming ? NO ONE even YOU ,can know every minute detail of Harry Greb's life... I read this info I posted, in an article
from a magazine in the 1930s...And yes I also read that the beautiful
Olive Thomas was having dinner with Harry Greb in the 1920s.
So sue me...
P.S. So call me a liar as you once did when I swore that I saw the Ray Robinson /Bobby Dykes #2 bout in Bklyn NY in the early 1950s...I do not lie sir...
Don't let him get you Burt, his post isn't worth it. Some knowledgeable posters do argue about what might have happened strongly in boxing, but they give their reasons and do a little research, the ones who call others liars and all that garbage are just taking up space sir. Hats off to ya Burt, I always look forward to the gems you post!
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Old 07-26-2014, 10:16 PM   #10
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Default Re: Harry Greb at his Greatest.

Whatever Burt, you always post these same tired stories that you read growing up but its just not true. His final day of training was well documented because thats the day that he was filmed in the only training footage we have of him. Still cameramen and motion cameras on the site for the papers, newsreels, and commericial films. Furthermore it was made very clear that Greb wasnt having trouble making weight because his camp was so stellar, hence his fantastic performance against Walker in turning back the clock which nobody expected. No, I dont know EVERYTHING about Greb but I know a lot more than you and Ive never pretended he ate dinner with Olive Thomas years after she died like you did, or pretended I saw one of the most famous fighters in the world in a fight that nobody else saw. I dont call you a liar I just know you arent some 90 year old man who trolls internet boxing forums.

The bottom line is why would you post that story if you dont know it was true? Others might find that entertaining, I find it ridiculous. The sad thing is some on here believe you and will repeat that nonsense.
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Old 07-26-2014, 11:03 PM   #11
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Default Re: Harry Greb at his Greatest.

Klompton, I want to tread a little careful here in that you may have the information I'm requesting. Do you have a specific site that dates the different Walker-Greb training clips, and if its a newspaper account your quoting will you also give the info needed to see this. The story by Nat Fleisher through his years was that Harry made a ruse of pretending to party the night before and be hung over the day of the fight, this couldn't be the case if you have documentation that the films were made on fight day, I also have not seen dates for any of the clippings. The disputing that Burt saw an account of Olive before she passed in late '20 dining with Harry doesn't seem researchable but all information on her is a widely traveled socialite who dined and partied with many famous of her time, this seems simple something you don't believe which is a different matter. I know nothing of the second bout so I won't comment, if you can give me the above specifics I'll thank you for them. T
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Old 07-27-2014, 12:02 AM   #12
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Default Re: Harry Greb at his Greatest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by timmers612 View Post
Klompton, I want to tread a little careful here in that you may have the information I'm requesting. Do you have a specific site that dates the different Walker-Greb training clips, and if its a newspaper account your quoting will you also give the info needed to see this. The story by Nat Fleisher through his years was that Harry made a ruse of pretending to party the night before and be hung over the day of the fight, this couldn't be the case if you have documentation that the films were made on fight day, I also have not seen dates for any of the clippings. The disputing that Burt saw an account of Olive before she passed in late '20 dining with Harry doesn't seem researchable but all information on her is a widely traveled socialite who dined and partied with many famous of her time, this seems simple something you don't believe which is a different matter. I know nothing of the second bout so I won't comment, if you can give me the above specifics I'll thank you for them. T
T,thank you for your input. I don't want to get into a cat fight with K, as
he loves to do. I have been reading boxing magazines and books since
the early 1940s and have boxing magazines from the late 1920s, although
Hurricane Sandy flooded away many of them. So when I started posting on ESB, I wrote an innocuous item I read, written in an old boxing mag
about the writer mentioning seeing Harry Greb dining with the beautiful
but ill-fated Olive Thomas in a restaurant. Then I got flack from K, for
posting this item that an old contemporary boxing writer wrote in the 1920s. Couldn't be true, he blasted. I kept my peace, but yesterday I posted that I read many years ago that before the Mickey Walker bout
Greb "was a few pounds over the 160 pound weight", so as the boxing writer wrote, Greb to lose weight "ran around Central Park twice, drank
orange punch and came into the bout under 158 pounds or so.
For this item I was admonished again by K, claiming it never happened...
I who never was there at these 2 incidents written by boxing writers who were
around Harry Greb those days, might be closer to the truth than K is today... I might be long in the tooth now but my longevity in reading
these oldtime boxing writers might be closer to the truth than K is...
Cheers T
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Old 07-27-2014, 12:29 AM   #13
timmers612
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Default Re: Harry Greb at his Greatest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by burt bienstock View Post
T,thank you for your input. I don't want to get into a cat fight with K, as
he loves to do. I have been reading boxing magazines and books since
the early 1940s and have boxing magazines from the late 1920s, although
Hurricane Sandy flooded away many of them. So when I started posting on ESB, I wrote an innocuous item I read, written in an old boxing mag
about the writer mentioning seeing Harry Greb dining with the beautiful
but ill-fated Olive Thomas in a restaurant. Then I got flack from K, for
posting this item that an old contemporary boxing writer wrote in the 1920s. Couldn't be true, he blasted. I kept my peace, but yesterday I posted that I read many years ago that before the Mickey Walker bout
Greb "was a few pounds over the 160 pound weight", so as the boxing writer wrote, Greb to lose weight "ran around Central Park twice, drank
orange punch and came into the bout under 158 pounds or so.
For this item I was admonished again by K, claiming it never happened...
I who never was there at these 2 incidents written by boxing writers who were
around Harry Greb those days, might be closer to the truth than K is today... I might be long in the tooth now but my longevity in reading
these oldtime boxing writers might be closer to the truth than K is...
Cheers T
Well written friend! I also over the years have come across scribes accounts of boxers and fights some have called lies that I made up, so I can understand what your saying and they said the same about Nat Fleisher's first hand accounts too so why be surprised. One Burt was from a well traveled boxing writer who told of an account Jack Dempsey gave him about a private bout with Johnson in Canada long passed Johnson's prime, and I was called all manner of things for "making that story up." You do good Burt and we appreciate you here. T
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Old 07-27-2014, 03:50 AM   #14
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Default Re: Harry Greb at his Greatest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by burt bienstock View Post
T,thank you for your input. I don't want to get into a cat fight with K, as
he loves to do. I have been reading boxing magazines and books since
the early 1940s and have boxing magazines from the late 1920s, although
Hurricane Sandy flooded away many of them. So when I started posting on ESB, I wrote an innocuous item I read, written in an old boxing mag
about the writer mentioning seeing Harry Greb dining with the beautiful
but ill-fated Olive Thomas in a restaurant. Then I got flack from K, for
posting this item that an old contemporary boxing writer wrote in the 1920s. Couldn't be true, he blasted. I kept my peace, but yesterday I posted that I read many years ago that before the Mickey Walker bout
Greb "was a few pounds over the 160 pound weight", so as the boxing writer wrote, Greb to lose weight "ran around Central Park twice, drank
orange punch and came into the bout under 158 pounds or so.
For this item I was admonished again by K, claiming it never happened...
I who never was there at these 2 incidents written by boxing writers who were
around Harry Greb those days, might be closer to the truth than K is today... I might be long in the tooth now but my longevity in reading
these oldtime boxing writers might be closer to the truth than K is...
Cheers T
though Klompton is a Greb expert that doesn't automatically mean he knows literally everything about him.

I believe Burt read/heard/seen the things he speaks about.
this also can be inaccurate as 'some' of the reports 'might' not have all the facts quite right.

but that doesn't make Burt wrong and Klompton doesn't have the Tact nor Wisdom to recognize such things, he isn't alone there are 1 or 2 others here and on other sites too.

these bully & undermine decent honest people just trying to both enjoy and learn...

I find it most amusing when they deliberately exclude some facts and reports for fighters while on other threads about other fighters the same demands on fighters are heralded and accounted for. Hypocrites.

I don't argue, insult or entertain them, I'm here to learn & enjoy!

Great to have your experience and insight Burt!!!
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Old 07-27-2014, 08:36 AM   #15
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Default Re: Harry Greb at his Greatest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thistle1 View Post
though Klompton is a Greb expert that doesn't automatically mean he knows literally everything about him.

I believe Burt read/heard/seen the things he speaks about.
this also can be inaccurate as 'some' of the reports 'might' not have all the facts quite right.

but that doesn't make Burt wrong and Klompton doesn't have the Tact nor Wisdom to recognize such things, he isn't alone there are 1 or 2 others here and on other sites too.

these bully & undermine decent honest people just trying to both enjoy and learn...

I find it most amusing when they deliberately exclude some facts and reports for fighters while on other threads about other fighters the same demands on fighters are heralded and accounted for. Hypocrites.

I don't argue, insult or entertain them, I'm here to learn & enjoy!

Great to have your experience and insight Burt!!!
So very well said!
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