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Old 03-09-2010, 02:52 PM   #106
Russell
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Default Re: Adding Up 0's Stolen...

Errr, I'm pretty sure you're just a wee bit late with your picks there, TommyV.
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Old 03-09-2010, 03:08 PM   #107
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Errr, I'm pretty sure you're just a wee bit late with your picks there, TommyV.
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Old 03-09-2010, 03:25 PM   #108
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Hey that doesn't mean we can't participate in some manly Spartan like faggotry!
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Old 03-10-2010, 03:16 PM   #109
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Sugar Shane Mosley

Philip Holiday 31-0
Eduardo Bartolome Morales 26-0
Shannan Taylor 28-0-1
Jose Luis Cruz 33-0-2

118 to date...come May 2nd we'll be updating it to reflect Floyd Mayweather Jr. 40-0 - for a grand total of 158!!!!

And assuming Berto gets by Quintana and resumes talks with Mosley, we could tack on another 26-0 by year's end, bringing Shane to 184!
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Old 03-10-2010, 03:42 PM   #110
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Sugar Shane Mosley

Philip Holiday 31-0
Eduardo Bartolome Morales 26-0
Shannan Taylor 28-0-1
Jose Luis Cruz 33-0-2

118 to date...come May 2nd we'll be updating it to reflect Floyd Mayweather Jr. 40-0 - for a grand total of 158!!!!

And assuming Berto gets by Quintana and resumes talks with Mosley, we could tack on another 26-0 by year's end, bringing Shane to 184!
You're confident Shane is going to beat Mayweather?

Out of curiosity, why?
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Old 03-10-2010, 04:53 PM   #111
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You're confident Shane is going to beat Mayweather?

Out of curiosity, why?
Call it destiny, friend.
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Old 03-10-2010, 06:47 PM   #112
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Sumbu Kalambay:

Cosimo Carbone 7-0
Giovanni Martorina 5-0
Giovanni DeMarco 18-0-1
Herol Graham 38-0
Mike McCallum 32-0
Francesco Dell'Aquila 24-0-2

124
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Old 03-10-2010, 06:59 PM   #113
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Default Re: Adding Up 0's Stolen...

It probably wont be me, but i was wondering if anyone has enough interest in this thread to tally the answers provided and get a list going, so that we can get an actual ranking for each of the boxers nominated.
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Old 03-10-2010, 07:05 PM   #114
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Call it destiny, friend.
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Here I was looking forward to a well thought out post.
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Old 03-10-2010, 07:11 PM   #115
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It probably wont be me, but i was wondering if anyone has enough interest in this thread to tally the answers provided and get a list going, so that we can get an actual ranking for each of the boxers nominated.
No one has topped JC Superstar (209-0-4)... Yet!
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Old 03-10-2010, 07:13 PM   #116
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No one has topped JC Superstar (209-0-4)... Yet!
There is the current world champion! Which poster made the correct pick?
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Old 03-10-2010, 07:18 PM   #117
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Which poster made the correct pick?
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Old 03-10-2010, 08:28 PM   #118
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i should have guessed
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Old 03-11-2010, 01:21 PM   #119
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It probably wont be me, but i was wondering if anyone has enough interest in this thread to tally the answers provided and get a list going, so that we can get an actual ranking for each of the boxers nominated.

That isn't a terrible idea...and to make that person's life even more miserable , we could complicate it by establishing a points system for quality of undefeated fighter by which to multiply the tally (ie the 5-0 nobodies get 1pt, 13-0 prospects who eventually went bust get 2pts, mid-carders 3pts, and popping the cherry of a Felix Trinidad gets you like 5pts) and arrive at a more truly greatness-reflective weighted score.




...not sure what I'm laughing about, it'll probably wind up being me that volunteers...
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Old 03-11-2010, 07:00 PM   #120
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Here I was looking forward to a well thought out post.

There's nothing like a good guilt trip.

(the rest of this post shrunk so as not to totally derail a very good thread)

OK...why will Shane steal Floyd's 0?

1) Hunger

Shane is, at this point, self-avowedly desperate to cement his legacy among the immortals. He's not fighting with any belied agenda, ie with his back against the wall financially, firmly entrenched in the lucrative GBP partnership as he is. Shane also never reportedly mismanaged his money before, during, or since his marriage - I do not subscribe to the notion that his divorce ruined him monetarily; it was reportedly an amicable and equitable split and even as an avid cynic that doesn't strike me as merely PR spin.

The intensity of the Margarito performance corroborates that Shane is looking to pour his heart out bell to bell for as many more trips as he makes between the ropes - there will be no phoning it in hereafter, not for a single round.

Floyd, conversely, seems to be very much in it for the paycheck(s) following his "retirement"/sabbatical, and it's safe to assume that a win here to Floyd simply means a virtual lockdown of a Pacquiao date (likely to be a career high in net income). Having SSM on his resume isn't a huge priority - if it were, this would have already happened by
now.

The Marquez performance, while an impressive display of the pure boxing skill that he serves as the reigning poster child of, may actually hurt Mayweather in the "hunger" department as it was so easy (and over someone hailed as a top p4p talent, ignoring the size difference) that he may be lulled into a sense of complacency...thinking he can coast to victory over the world's elite. Now, it would be fallacy to ever accuse Floyd of under-training - he will be in customarily astonishing condition come fight night - but mentally, he may not be as steeled as his opponent having recently been significantly faster of hand and foot and quicker to the punch than a man not considered to be slow, trigger-shy, or poor in timing - not to mention smaller and younger than Shane.

2) Strategy (specifically, lack thereof) and Misinformation

Floyd is a very smart fighter. His ring intelligence, however, is of the reactive kind...he responds to the immediacy of the moment with improvisational skills and adaptability nonpareil. He is not a master strategist. Neither, for that matter, is Uncle Roger.

It can be said that Floyd does win fights largely because of preparation - but it is his generalized physical preparation coupled with his supreme athletic gifts that allow him to win. He claims not to study his opponents, and indeed seems to not really customize his performances (barring on-the-spot adjustments where needed) to each.

Roger, additionally, is a very good trainer and an integral part of Floyd's success, deserving of roughly the same amount of credit that any other trainer of a world-class boxer gets. His contributions come in his motivation of Floyd both during camp and in the ring, and helping keep Floyd in tip-top shape and adherent to a regimen of well-rounded generalized training. Roger has never cooked up a specific gameplan that netted Floyd a win he wouldn't have secured otherwise.

In contrast - nobody would ever accuse Mosley of being the smartest fighter in the world (at least when it comes to "ring smarts"). He's fought stupidly plenty of times. This usually occurs when he is dragged into brawls and his fighting instinct is triggered. Floyd has no intention of doing anything like this, not even to try and create countering opportunities off Shane mistakes. Brawling with Shane would be the worst possible strategy for the non-strategist Mayweather.

Other than those moments of unfortunate machismo, Shane is underrated as a smart and patient boxer who can read and react to a situation as good as anyone (well, maybe not as good as Floyd...but as good as most).

Furthermore, Shane has Nazim Richardson in his corner - a man who's never gone into a fight without a meticulously devised gameplan whose effects are demonstrable throughout the action's duration. With Nazim in the conversation, Roger isn't. Again, this is not to say Roger isn't a very good trainer - there are more aspects of coaching than the war room, but when it comes to that one aspect, if Nazim is the other man in the conversation...no, Roger isn't in the conversation at all.

There's also the misconception that Shane is himself merely a fast puncher without any vestige of boxing technique from his amateur and early pro days (ie no jab whatsoever, poor pivot defense). If Roger does devise a plan centered around treating Shane like just another puncher (which I won't underestimate his intelligence and assume he'll do, but it's possible) - Floyd's in trouble.

Floyd will simply do what Floyd does - which is usually more than enough. Those who are excited about this fight - those who know enough about boxing to be truly excited about it, be they fans of Shane, Floyd, or the sport in general - are waiting with baited breath on the x-factor: what blueprint Nazim drafts up, and how ready, willing and able Shane is to execute it.

3) Styles

Of Floyd's opponents dating back since he reached the pinnacle of the sport - we'll say over ten years - the closest approximation to Shane stylistically is, actually, Zab. It's only roughly and relatively analogous, but it is the closest match (primarily in the dedication to fast, aggressive, and accurate ad-hoc combination punching - meaning wherever spaces open up as opposed to merely working the body for the sake of working the body or headhunting aimlessly). Zab famously did well early with his style against Floyd - the shift in momentum had as much to do with Zab's mental unraveling as with adjustments Floyd made (though he did make some).

Shane is going to neither hang back on the outside and think about how to get inside, nor is he going to wade in with haymakers or pendulums aimed at Floyd's ribcage. He is going to press Floyd with consistent bursts of rapid-fire flurries, and it will be interesting to see how Floyd responds.

The closest thing to a slick boxing style Shane has seen since his losses to Winky are Collazo and Cotto - and neither comes even close to approximating Floyd. Shane did do well in both of these fights, however, and has only looked especially poor against men with less refined styles (Cruz, Vargas in the rematch, Mayorga).

4) Strength

IMHO, Shane will represent perhaps the strongest fighter proportionate to their weight that Floyd has seen since Castillo at 135. At 147 Mosley is at least as strong as Oscar at 154 - and that is meant in a straightforward, not "pound for pound" sense. Shane bossed Margarito around - a very large welterweight (whereas Floyd is a smallish one)...and while Floyd won't be right there in front of him waiting to be bullied, it isn't as though he is elusive for 100% of every round - much slower men than Shane in DLH and JMM were able to sporadically pin Mayweather on the ropes. When Mosley gets close enough, Floyd will feel true WW strength bearing down on him - and it will, again, be very interesting to see how he responds.

Last edited by IntentionalButt; 03-11-2010 at 08:38 PM.
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