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Old 08-22-2009, 03:41 PM   #46
Robbi
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Default Re: Best fighter of the 1980's

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Sugar Ray Leonard - 2 WBA Titles, 4 WBC Titles = 6 titles in 5 weights {not including the the WBC welterweight title he took in 1979 from Benitez}

Wins over all time greats like Duran, Hearns and Hagler, record against these greats is W4 L1 D1.

I believe Sugar Ray Leonard is the greatest Pd 4 Pd fighter of all time

{and before everyone starts saying i'm nuthugging, I like all the 4 kings equally and my opinion is based on talent, skill and achievement and is not biased }
The best ever over the last 30 years. All-time though? Thats a brave call indeed.
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Old 08-23-2009, 08:35 AM   #47
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Default Re: Best fighter of the 1980's

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Sugar Ray Leonard - 2 WBA Titles, 4 WBC Titles = 6 titles in 5 weights {not including the the WBC welterweight title he took in 1979 from Benitez}

Wins over all time greats like Duran, Hearns and Hagler, record against these greats is W4 L1 D1.

I believe Sugar Ray Leonard is the greatest Pd 4 Pd fighter of all time

{and before everyone starts saying i'm nuthugging, I like all the 4 kings equally and my opinion is based on talent, skill and achievement and is not biased }
Then why do you go by the nickname of sugar if you're not biased? Of course you're biased! And nobody likes any of the fab four equally so dont expect anyone here to be fooled by your claim that you're not biased.

If I had to rank them it would be either Duran or Hagler at the top because of alongevity Leonard could not achieve.

let's see Leonard go 72-1 or 62-3-2. The day he does, we can rank him up there with those two.

His comeback was a complete sham and his performance vs Norris was the real clincher for us doubters, especially those of us making the claim he couldnt handle slick boxers. He couldn't.

If he were close to half the fighter you say he is, he would have put that guy away with no problem the way Jackson did.

Both Jackson and Norris were far more complete fighters than the bungling leonard who couldnt win a round against a man he was hugely favored to beat.
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Old 08-23-2009, 09:15 AM   #48
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Default Re: Best fighter of the 1980's

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Then why do you go by the nickname of sugar if you're not biased? Of course you're biased! And nobody likes any of the fab four equally so dont expect anyone here to be fooled by your claim that you're not biased.

If I had to rank them it would be either Duran or Hagler at the top because of alongevity Leonard could not achieve.

let's see Leonard go 72-1 or 62-3-2. The day he does, we can rank him up there with those two.

His comeback was a complete sham and his performance vs Norris was the real clincher for us doubters, especially those of us making the claim he couldnt handle slick boxers. He couldn't.

If he were close to half the fighter you say he is, he would have put that guy away with no problem the way Jackson did.

Both Jackson and Norris were far more complete fighters than the bungling leonard who couldnt win a round against a man he was hugely favored to beat.
Mesmerising, it truly is.
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Old 08-23-2009, 09:37 AM   #49
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Default Re: Best fighter of the 1980's

Hector Camacho, had he not had the wits scared out of him by Edwin Rosario would have been a candidate for the honors here.
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Old 08-23-2009, 09:43 AM   #50
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Default Re: Best fighter of the 1980's

Despite his losses, I would rate Hearns right up there because he created so much excitement.
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Old 08-23-2009, 11:06 AM   #51
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Default Re: Best fighter of the 1980's

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Then why do you go by the nickname of sugar if you're not biased? Of course you're biased! And nobody likes any of the fab four equally so dont expect anyone here to be fooled by your claim that you're not biased.

If I had to rank them it would be either Duran or Hagler at the top because of alongevity Leonard could not achieve.

let's see Leonard go 72-1 or 62-3-2. The day he does, we can rank him up there with those two.

His comeback was a complete sham and his performance vs Norris was the real clincher for us doubters, especially those of us making the claim he couldnt handle slick boxers. He couldn't.

If he were close to half the fighter you say he is, he would have put that guy away with no problem the way Jackson did.

Both Jackson and Norris were far more complete fighters than the bungling leonard who couldnt win a round against a man he was hugely favored to beat.
terry norris beat a clearly faded ray leonard , the fact you even mentioned the norris fight clearly shows you are biased against leonard and do not like the man

{just so you know the reason that I use the name sugarsean is because it is the only nickname thats matches with my name sean , it would'nt make sense to be called marvelous sean or hitman sean or hands of stone sean so I'm not biased I know the way I feel abot the careers of the four kings so don't be talking about my views when you cleary don't know them}
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Old 08-23-2009, 11:10 AM   #52
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Default Re: Best fighter of the 1980's

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terry norris beat a clearly faded ray leonard , the fact you even mentioned the norris fight clearly shows you are biased against leonard and do not like the man


so if that is your point you would agree that leonard gets far to much credit for getting a dubious decision over a clearly faded hagler
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Old 08-23-2009, 11:16 AM   #53
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so if that is your point you would agree that leonard gets far to much credit for getting a dubious decision over a clearly faded hagler
they where both faded , the fact is leonard fought hagler at middleweight and won a close decision , get over it, it was an amazing upset and peformance, no one predicted that he would win hagler was the favourite
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Old 08-23-2009, 12:21 PM   #54
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Default Re: Best fighter of the 1980's

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terry norris beat a clearly faded ray leonard , the fact you even mentioned the norris fight clearly shows you are biased against leonard and do not like the man

{just so you know the reason that I use the name sugarsean is because it is the only nickname thats matches with my name sean , it would'nt make sense to be called marvelous sean or hitman sean or hands of stone sean so I'm not biased I know the way I feel abot the careers of the four kings so don't be talking about my views when you cleary don't know them}
and I have an even more plausibel explanation: SRL was overrated. Hence, the multiple self imposed layoffs and unforseen comebacks; the unforseen thrashing by Norris.

let's be honest: leonard is not the greatest p4p ever. You need justification for making such a ludicrous statement. He's nowhere near the best of the last 30 years. He's not even the best of his own decade.

When you are heavily favored to beat your opponent and you wind up getting thrashed, it shows something is wrong; there is a deficiency that others weren't aware of. Which is why Norris dominated the 3-1 favorite. Sure, we can take the easy way out and just say Ray got old overnight. It's easier to say that than admit the truth he was overrated. Easy to ignore the curiously timed comebacks.

Unbeaten in 11 years. Five championship titles. Dominated his last opponent in the ring. On his toes 12 rounds without a problem. I didnt see a problem with him using his legs, did you?

No layoffs this time you can blame the loss on. best fighting weight of 154 (ray was 158 for the Hagler fight)

In my view, Leonard had never faced anyone like Norris with the speed to get to him quickly and the power to hurt him and put him in his place. By the start of round 3, Ray had all the confidence taken away from him and all the fight taken out of him.

This is the reason he became so brazen in the Hagler fight; because Hagler was too slow, too cautious, and too light hitting. Unlike Norris who hit him fast and hard, slapping him down and turning his guts to jelly.

You want to see REAL boxing and real genius? You been looking at the wrong man.

I suggest you take a long hard look at my man Norris to see how it's really done. Only Roy Jones and a young Camacho can compare.
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Old 08-23-2009, 12:38 PM   #55
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Default Re: Best fighter of the 1980's

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and I have an even more plausibel explanation: SRL was overrated. Hence, the multiple self imposed layoffs and unforseen comebacks; the unforseen thrashing by Norris.

let's be honest: leonard is not the greatest p4p ever. You need justification for making such a ludicrous statement. He's nowhere near the best of the last 30 years. He's not even the best of his own decade.

When you are heavily favored to beat your opponent and you wind up getting thrashed, it shows something is wrong; there is a deficiency that others weren't aware of. Which is why Norris dominated the 3-1 favorite. Sure, we can take the easy way out and just say Ray got old overnight. It's easier to say that than admit the truth he was overrated. Easy to ignore the curiously timed comebacks.

Unbeaten in 11 years. Five championship titles. Dominated his last opponent in the ring. On his toes 12 rounds without a problem. I didnt see a problem with him using his legs, did you?

No layoffs this time you can blame the loss on. best fighting weight of 154 (ray was 158 for the Hagler fight)

In my view, Leonard had never faced anyone like Norris with the speed to get to him quickly and the power to hurt him and put him in his place. By the start of round 3, Ray had all the confidence taken away from him and all the fight taken out of him.

This is the reason he became so brazen in the Hagler fight; because Hagler was too slow, too cautious, and too light hitting. Unlike Norris who hit him fast and hard, slapping him down and turning his guts to jelly.

You want to see REAL boxing and real genius? You been looking at the wrong man.

I suggest you take a long hard look at my man Norris to see how it's really done. Only Roy Jones and a young Camacho can compare.

look at the people terry norris lost to when in his peak years and compare them with the only loss leonard had at his peak years to Duran one of the all time greats and in that fight leonard was able to fight roberto's fight on nearly even terms and was not even close to being knocked out , now compare that with norris who got knocked out in pretty much all his losses.

{ I not trying to put terry norris down he was a great talent but cleary not as great a fighter as leonard was at his peak in my opinion }
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Old 08-23-2009, 12:40 PM   #56
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Default Re: Best fighter of the 1980's

190+ : tyson
190 : holyfield
175 : spinks , qawi
160 : undecided (hagler had loses and draws against stoppable oposition
as shown by him and others later).
154 : mccallum , jackson
147 : leonard
140 : pryor ? (there were the bottle with panama lewis as pryor's trainer , bobby joe young)
135 : duran - who surely could have been 140's #1 if he wanted , but he wanted more
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Old 08-23-2009, 12:49 PM   #57
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they where both faded , the fact is leonard fought hagler at middleweight and won a close decision , get over it, it was an amazing upset and peformance, no one predicted that he would win hagler was the favourite
and with Norris, he kicked butt! My man Norris doesnt have to go to a close decision. he dominates.

87 Leonard drew with Hagler. So what??? Just getting by might be alright if you're a leonard fan who's used to lowering the bar for their man. Lowering the bar and giving two belts for one fight-that't okay too. Leonard could use a little more to inflate his record. GIVE him two more belts and he wont even have to defend them.

You know how he hates defending his title!

Like i said, curiously timed comebacks and a refusal to defend your titles are serious indicators of a red flag, and that imminent destruction is on its way.

But Norris? he's from a different stock. He's a man. He doesnt need the media or the judges on his side. His own two lethal fists are more than enough as Ray Leonard learned on the night of February 9, 1991-the night a true legend was born.

Norris went into his fight with leonard, took charge of his more experienced opponent and showed him what winning is about!

Norris would have destroyed 87 Ray leonard in the ring. 1984 version wouldve been no problem and 81 version just a little until Terry let loose with one of his lightning lefts to the jaw which would have leonard reeling back as tho he'd touched a live wire. From that point on it would be a continuous spanking.

leonard just doesnt have the smarts or the tenacity to deal with a man like Norris. he can't think quickly enough when someone's on top of him, hurting him and giving him no room to breathe. Leonard would lose his composure against someone like Terry and what's more, he'd never be able to keep up so incredibly energetic and light on his feet.

We're not talking about your typical straight ahead plooder like Dave Green, Kevin Howard, Lalonde, Kalule, or used up retired hagler but a trigger fisted, fleeted up and comer approaching his prime years that can't keep still.

Look at Ray in the Kalule fight. You think someone like him is going to give Terry a real fight? Terry will box him like he's never been boxed and hit him like he's never been hit.

Compare kalule, who fights like a mummy with Norris who reminds me of a young Ali with power, always bouncing, always moving and with the expertise and smarts to execute a strategy to perfection. The ability to tie up when cornered or crowded. Too many weapons too good on defense. What's a guy like Ray Leonard to do? it's not a fair fight.

To me, the jr middles of the late 80s Jackson and Norris were far superior than the lifeless drab champions of the early 80s-Hope, Kalule, and even benitez and Leonard.

I would go on but it's time for my afternoon swim.
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Old 08-23-2009, 12:55 PM   #58
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Default Re: Best fighter of the 1980's

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and with Norris, he kicked butt! My man Norris doesnt have to go to a close decision. he dominates.

87 Leonard drew with Hagler. So what??? Just getting by might be alright if you're a leonard fan who's used to lowering the bar for their man. Lowering the bar and giving two belts for one fight-that't okay too. Leonard could use a little more to inflate his record. GIVE him two more belts and he wont even have to defend them.

You know how he hates defending his title!

Like i said, curiously timed comebacks and a refusal to defend your titles are serious indicators of a red flag, and that imminent destruction is on its way.

But Norris? he's from a different stock. He's a man. He doesnt need the media or the judges on his side. His own two lethal fists are more than enough as Ray Leonard learned on the night of February 9, 1991-the night a true legend was born.

Norris went into his fight with leonard, took charge of his more experienced opponent and showed him what winning is about!

Norris would have destroyed 87 Ray leonard in the ring. 1984 version wouldve been no problem and 81 version just a little until Terry let loose with one of his lightning lefts to the jaw which would have leonard reeling back as tho he'd touched a live wire. From that point on it would be a continuous spanking.

leonard just doesnt have the smarts or the tenacity to deal with a man like Norris. he can't think quickly enough when someone's on top of him, hurting him and giving him no room to breathe. Leonard would lose his composure against someone like Terry and what's more, he'd never be able to keep up so incredibly energetic and light on his feet.

We're not talking about your typical straight ahead plooder like Dave Green, Kevin Howard, Lalonde, Kalule, or used up retired hagler but a trigger fisted, fleeted up and comer approaching his prime years that can't keep still.

Look at Ray in the Kalule fight. You think someone like him is going to give Terry a real fight? Terry will box him like he's never been boxed and hit him like he's never been hit.

Compare kalule, who fights like a mummy with Norris who reminds me of a young Ali with power, always bouncing, always moving and with the expertise and smarts to execute a strategy to perfection. The ability to tie up when cornered or crowded. Too many weapons too good on defense. What's a guy like Ray Leonard to do? it's not a fair fight.

To me, the jr middles of the late 80s Jackson and Norris were far superior than the lifeless drab champions of the early 80s-Hope, Kalule, and even benitez and Leonard.

I would go on but it's time for my afternoon swim.
your seriously delusional man
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Old 08-23-2009, 12:57 PM   #59
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look at the people terry norris lost to when in his peak years and compare them with the only loss leonard had at his peak years to Duran one of the all time greats and in that fight leonard was able to fight roberto's fight on nearly even terms and was not even close to being knocked out , now compare that with norris who got knocked out in pretty much all his losses.

{ I not trying to put terry norris down he was a great talent but cleary not as great a fighter as leonard was at his peak in my opinion }
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Old 08-23-2009, 01:01 PM   #60
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your seriously delusional man
Bang on the money.
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