In 12-16 months Hatton & Calzaghe will be p4p 1 & 2 - Page 2

China_hand_Joe · 06-24-2007, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sues2nd

It doesnt matter what weightclass they are in for their p4p ranking...

And Joe beating Kessler (who is on NO ONES top ten p4p list, tho I personally think he is a fantastic fighter...) isnt a bigger win than Hop over Tito...or Hop over Winky (if it plays out that way)....OR ARGUABLY HOP OVER TARVER (more for the reasons I mentioned above, as opposed to just beating Tarver)...sorry, if Joe pulls it out, it will be a great win, but cmon...

And ya know I love Calzaghe....but again, cmon.

It does change things a little, or Wlad could beat up Pacman and get credit. Now he is fighting Winky (no spring chicken and no 170 lb fighter). Personally I see beating Kessler at 168 as being worth more than beating Winky at 170. I favour Calzaghe more heavily over Winky than Kessler (you could make a case he is top 10 P4P, he has really dominated his opponents thus far). Hopkins is a legend but I consider him past his best and no longer around the top 5 P4P fighters, no way. This is 2007. Obviously Americans will see things very differently.

db2431 · 06-24-2007, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sues2nd

Are you insane?

I like both fighters....but you have to be a blind moron to really believe this.

And did you call Calzaghe "hungry'?

Wait let me check....

Yeah you did????

You really are crazy...

Hatton doesnt want to be fighting much past 30 and is looking for the big fights NOW, Calzaghe realises time isnt on his side and for the first time in a while is HUNGRY for big fights, he has money, he's been champ for 10yrs, now he wants respect as best p4p fighter out there before father time catches up with him.

Decebal · 06-24-2007, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by China_hand_Joe

It does change things a little, or Wlad could beat up Pacman and get credit. Now he is fighting Winky (no spring chicken and no 170 lb fighter). Personally I see beating Kessler at 168 as being worth more than beating Winky at 170. I favour Calzaghe more heavily over Winky than Kessler (you could make a case he is top 10 P4P, he has really dominated his opponents thus far). Hopkins is a legend but I consider him past his best and no longer around the top 5 P4P fighters, no way. This is 2007. Obviously Americans will see things very differently.

Take a break, China Joe! You'll burn yourself out, man!

The Italarican · 06-24-2007, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by db2431

Book it baby!When Calzaghe demolishes Kessler and Hopkins/Winky & Hatton beats Cotto and PBF its a formality!

We will see ONE of those fights in the next 12-16 months at best.

China_hand_Joe · 06-24-2007, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Decebal

Take a break, China Joe! You'll burn yourself out, man!

You have to agree with everything I said though.

The Italarican · 06-24-2007, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by China_hand_Joe

Tito and Oscar were not P4P fighters at middleweight in my honest opinion and in hindsight, Tarver is, well Tarver is Tarver. If Joe beats Kessler, then for me that beats any single win on Hopkins resume.

Trinidad was rightfully around Top 3 P4P at the time of the Hopkins fight. He looked even more dangerous climbing up in weight a destroying Reid and Vargas, and he looked as viscious as ever in demolishing a still very-game Joppy. His 2-hand power, his greatest asset, translated to 160 easily. Hopkins's gameplan and ability to tear him apart doesn't detract from that.

Decebal · 06-24-2007, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by China_hand_Joe

You have to agree with everything I said though.

Do I have a choice?

China_hand_Joe · 06-24-2007, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Italarican

Trinidad was rightfully around Top 3 P4P at the time of the Hopkins fight.

We have hindsight. Trinidad's P4P ranking was bogus and a result of the American boxing media. It is like Toney was considered by many to be the P4P number one. Now we know, in hindsight that was rubbish.

Now Floyd Mayweather is number one, in hindsight, the logical fan will look back and say.."Well actually Calzaghe was probably number one"

We cannot just ignore hindsight. We now know Reid is nothing much, we know Trinidad wasn't really that good.

If we don't ignore hindsight, then the credit we give Calzaghe for beating Lacy needs to be infinite. But as we do we know Lacy wasn't really the saviour of boxing, the new Tyson etc...

China_hand_Joe · 06-24-2007, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Decebal

Do I have a choice?

Not if you are a fan of logic.

henrik · 06-24-2007, 12:30 PM

calzaghe in top 3 p4p...and now he´s hungry too...uuuh...
honesly.be real for f...k sake!

China_hand_Joe · 06-24-2007, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by henrik

calzaghe in top 3 p4p...and now he´s hungry too...uuuh...
honesly.be real for f...k sake!

Make a case for anyone other than Floyd and maybe Pacman being above Joe. Don't start that "he's he has beat nobody" rubbish. If you are the best, you are the best whether you fight an Eric Crumble/James Toney like fighter or whether you fight Roy Jones.

The Italarican · 06-24-2007, 12:40 PM

Reid is nothing much... but why? Vargas was never quite the same... but why? Joppy never got back to championship form... but why? Ok, that last one is because he was getting old and wasn't as good as Hopkins or Trinidad.

Trinidad's standing was well-deserved. Your suggestion that Reid was never something is speculation. He was a young talented fighter, a beltholder after only a handful of fights, who looked rather good against Trinidad early in their fight before Trinidad rocked him, roughed him up, and wrecked his confidence.

You're giving a little too much credence to hindsight. It's what we in the States refer to as playing Monday Morning Quarterback. What we lose when looking back at things are the little nuances and circumstances that made things the way they were. Trinidad earned his way to the top based on what people actually saw from him at the time. Hindsight can tell you what things you could do to probably capitalize off his mistakes, but that doesn't detract from what he actually did in the ring.

Decebal · 06-24-2007, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by China_hand_Joe

Not if you are a fan of logic.

oh, dear...are you forcing me to be free, by any chance, China Joe?

China_hand_Joe · 06-24-2007, 12:43 PM

It does detract from things. Just look at Tarver's last fight, it has to be taken into consideration. Hopkins was never, ever the real P4P number one.

The Italarican · 06-24-2007, 12:47 PM

It can detract, but how much it does is another story. Hopkins did not have a legit argument for the #1 P4P fighter at the time of the Tarver fight anyway.

Hindsight suffers many of the same flaws that present analysis does. You can overemphasize or overlook things from the past.

06-24-2007, 12:30 PM	#25
henrik fasthands ESB Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: viking land-Denmark. Posts: 1,429 vCash: 980	Re: In 12-16 months Hatton & Calzaghe will be p4p 1 & 2 calzaghe in top 3 p4p...and now he´s hungry too...uuuh... honesly.be real for f...k sake!
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06-24-2007, 12:40 PM	#27
The Italarican Pretty Good Poster ESB Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: NY Posts: 837 vCash: 1000	Re: In 12-16 months Hatton & Calzaghe will be p4p 1 & 2 Reid is nothing much... but why? Vargas was never quite the same... but why? Joppy never got back to championship form... but why? Ok, that last one is because he was getting old and wasn't as good as Hopkins or Trinidad. Trinidad's standing was well-deserved. Your suggestion that Reid was never something is speculation. He was a young talented fighter, a beltholder after only a handful of fights, who looked rather good against Trinidad early in their fight before Trinidad rocked him, roughed him up, and wrecked his confidence. You're giving a little too much credence to hindsight. It's what we in the States refer to as playing Monday Morning Quarterback. What we lose when looking back at things are the little nuances and circumstances that made things the way they were. Trinidad earned his way to the top based on what people actually saw from him at the time. Hindsight can tell you what things you could do to probably capitalize off his mistakes, but that doesn't detract from what he actually did in the ring.
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06-24-2007, 12:43 PM	#29
China_hand_Joe Nostradamus East Side VIP Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 10,693 vCash: 563	Re: In 12-16 months Hatton & Calzaghe will be p4p 1 & 2 It does detract from things. Just look at Tarver's last fight, it has to be taken into consideration. Hopkins was never, ever the real P4P number one.
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06-24-2007, 12:47 PM	#30
The Italarican Pretty Good Poster ESB Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: NY Posts: 837 vCash: 1000	Re: In 12-16 months Hatton & Calzaghe will be p4p 1 & 2 It can detract, but how much it does is another story. Hopkins did not have a legit argument for the #1 P4P fighter at the time of the Tarver fight anyway. Hindsight suffers many of the same flaws that present analysis does. You can overemphasize or overlook things from the past.
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