Ray Robinson NOT top five all-time

[Hands of Iron]

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

The thing is they weren't all top10 rated when he fought them, ie Aaron Wade was retired pretty much

He hasnt got the best resume, that doesnt mean he isnt the best

Here's a list of those who were, in chronological order. Losses included up through 1958. IBHOF/WBHOF bolded. Doesn't even include several quality wins over Servo, Shapiro, Lello.

07/41: Sammy Angott W-UD10 (135)
10/41: Fritzie Zivic W-UD10 (147)
01/42: Fritzie Zivic W-TKO10 (147)
03/42: Norman Rubio W-TKO8 (147)
07/42: Sammy Angott W-UD10 (147)
08/42: Tony Motisi W-KO1 (147)
10/42: Jake LaMotta W-UD10 (160)
10/42: Izzy Jannazzo W-UD10 (147)
12/42: Izzy Jannazzo W-TKO8 (147)
02/43: Jake LaMotta L-UD10 (160)
02/43: Jackie Wilson W-MD10 (147)
02/43: Jake LaMotta W-UD10 (160)
07/43: Ralph Zanelli W-UD10 (160)
08/43: Henry Armstrong W-UD10 (147)
11/44: Vic Dellicurti W-UD10 (160)
01/45: Tommy Bell W-UD10 (147)
02/45: George Costner W-KO1 (147)
02/45: Jake LaMotta W-UD10 (160)
05/45: Jose Basora D-PTS (160)
06/45: Jimmy McDaniels W-KO2 (147)
09/45: Jake LaMotta W-SD12 (160)
12/46: Tommy Bell W-UD15 (147) [Wins WW Title]
05/47: Georgie Abrams W-SD10 (160)
06/47: Jimmy Doyle W-TKO8 (147) [Retains WW Title]
06/48: Bernard Docusen W-UD15 (147) [Retains WW Title]
09/48: Kid Gavilan W-UD15 (147)
07/49: Kid Gavilan W-UD15 (147) [Retains WW Title]
08/49: Steve Belloise W-TKO7 (160)
04/50: Ray Barnes W-UD10 (160)
06/50: Robert Villemain W-UD15 (160)
08/50: Charley Fusari W-UD15 (147) [Retains WW Title]
08/50: Jose Basora W-KO1 (160)
10/50: Carl Olson W-KO12 (160)
11/50: Bobby Dykes W-MD10 (160)
12/50: Robert Villemain W-TKO9 (160)
02/51: Jake LaMotta W-TKO13 (160) [Wins MW Title]
07/51: Randy Turpin L-PTS (160) [Loses MW Title]
09/51: Randy Turpin W-TKO10 (160) [Wins MW Title]
03/52: Carl Olson W-UD15 (160) [Retains MW Title]
04/52: Rocky Graziano W-KO3 (160) [Retains MW Title]
06/52: Joey Maxim L-TKO14 (175) [LHW Title]
07/55: Rocky Castellani W-SD10 (160)
12/55: Carl Olson W-KO2 (160) [Wins MW Title]
05/56: Carl Olson W-KO4 (160) [Retains MW Title]
01/57: Gene Fullmer L-UD15 (160) [Loses MW Title]
05/57: Gene Fullmer W-KO5 (160) [Wins MW Title]
09/57: Carmen Basilio L-SD15 (160) [Loses MW Title]
03/58: Carmen Basilio W-SD15 (160) [Wins MW Title]
10/61: Denny Moyer W-UD10 (160)
01/63: Ralph Dupas W-SD10 (160)

From Henry Hascup and his 12,500 magazine collection.

[Peter__1987]

as if this guy beat 10 hall of famers....crazy

[Hands of Iron]

That record is sweet enough to murder diabetics.

[mcvey]

An attention seeking post that went nowhere ,yet somehow stretched to 4 pages.

[Hands of Iron]

Nah, Manassa creates good threads. See: Henry Armstrong nuthugging thread.. Why he was the greatest fighter of all-time, Barney Ross is an all-time top ten great, Duran is the most complete ever, etc.

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by Hands of Iron

Nah, Manassa creates good threads. See: Henry Armstrong nuthugging thread, Barney Ross is an all-time top ten great, Duran is the most complete ever, etc.

I know , I was just trying a to get a rise out of him.

[Abdullah]

Originally Posted by Manassa

I'm talking about a pound-for-pound list. He doesn't deserve to be there, hasn't got the record:

Joe Ghnouly
Pete Lello
Maxie Shapiro
Maxie Berger
Norman Rubio x2
Tony Motisi
Reuben Shank
Izzy Jannazzo x4
Ralph Zannelli
Sheik Rangel
Tommy Bell x2
George Costner x2
Jose Basora x2
Jimmy McDaniels
Cecil Hudson x2
Georgie Abrams
Jimmy Doyle
Bernard Docusen
Vic Dellicurti
Steve Belloise
Aaron Wade
Ray Barnes
Robert Villemain x2
Charley Fusari
Bobby Dykes
Holly Mims
Artie Levine
Cyrille Delanoit
Rocky Castellani
Denny Moyer
Hans Stretz
Ralph Dupas

Sammy Angott x3
Fritzie Zivic x2
Jake LaMotta x5
Henry Armstrong
Kid Gavilan x2
Carl Olson x4
Randolph Turpin
Rocky Graziano
Gene Fullmer
Carmen Basilio

Note: all fighters listed were rated in the RING's top ten at one point or another. Fighters in bold are Hall of Famers.

I feel like an idiot. At first, I didn't realize you were joking. When I read the title, I got ANGRY! Please don't do this to me this early in the morning. I just finished leaving a post in the general forum against some idiot who says that Floyd Mayweather, Jr. would DOMINATE Sugar Ray Robinson.

[he grant]

An argument can be made that pound for pound Fitz, Langford, Greb and Charles were better pound for pound fighters ...

In the modern era Charles dominance of Moore and Burley speaks volumes and then his very respectable run at heavyweight to me extends beyond anything Robinson did ...

[Hands of Iron]

Originally Posted by he grant

An argument can be made that pound for pound Fitz, Langford, Greb and Charles were better pound for pound fighters ...

In the modern era Charles dominance of Moore and Burley speaks volumes and then his very respectable run at heavyweight to me extends beyond anything Robinson did ...

That's four.

Surely, Armstrong merits inclusion though as well? His resume and accomplishments are about as immense as any, even more so considering he damn well beat Garcia for the middleweight title, giving him him four of eight. It's sort of astonishing to me that people have actually criticized the lack of title defenses made at 126 & 135. It really takes nothing from the accomplishment, and he needn't of held the fourth simultaneously either. Was the only man to stop Sarron in winning the featherweight title, a chockful of great wins over Ross, Ambers, Montanez, Wright, Arizmendi, Wolgast, all of whom were very relevant at time if not the outright Man; others avenging one defeat against conqueror Zivic; beating Angott, Jenkins, Larkin when on the slide...

In some ways, he could be described as the definitive pound-for-pound fighter, but there are many different forms and angles for which it can be interpreted. I do agree that Charles going 3-0 against Archie Moore and beating Burley twice orders high praise and placing, even with a weight advantage regarding the latter.

In terms of defining the modern era, I tend to lean towards the approach and reasoning Stonehands outlined in his Gods of War series introduction. Unfortunately, that takes Fitz and Langford out of the picture for the sake of organization, although we can't just brush off their incredible careers.

[Manassa]

Thanks for the compliments boys, I only ever really try to get a good discussion going

[Hands of Iron]

Originally Posted by Abdullah

I feel like an idiot. At first, I didn't realize you were joking. When I read the title, I got ANGRY! Please don't do this to me this early in the morning. I just finished leaving a post in the general forum against some idiot who says that Floyd Mayweather, Jr. would DOMINATE Sugar Ray Robinson.

It's still going too.

[kingfisher3]

and he will not listen, hell he wont even look

[Hands of Iron]

Originally Posted by kingfisher3

and he will not listen, hell he wont even look

Hopkins, eh?

[kingfisher3]

i tried to answer that seriously

[Hands of Iron]

Originally Posted by kingfisher3

i tried to answer that seriously

Unfortunately, it's a complete waste of your time.

It's okay, though. Fifty years from now, Robinson will still be discussed by serious fans of the sport as he is today. Floyd is a footnote.