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Old 09-12-2007, 08:17 PM   #1
Luigi1985
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Default Bobby Chacon

I saw right now the 2nd Chacon- Boza Edwards- fight again, and damn, what a warrior "Schoolboy" was, where do you rate him at his best weight class, 130 lbs?
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Old 09-12-2007, 10:42 PM   #2
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Default Re: Bobby Chacon

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Old 09-12-2007, 11:28 PM   #3
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Default Re: Bobby Chacon

Ranking fighters is a fruitless exercise, especially in the case of Chacon. No, he was never the best fighter out there, but it hardly mattered.

He was in consistently exciting fights; somewhat like Gatti, only perhaps a bit better all around, he gave the impression that he would rather die than lose a fight, and fought with the abandon that would suggest. In his featherweight days he was quicker and a bit more slippery; by the time he hit 130 pounds, age and bad habits had caught up with him, and he relied mainly on that big right hand, a good chin, and more guts than any sane human should have.

One saw in Chacon a fighter of some skill and a huge heart, but I think the reason most of his diehard fans clung to him was the aura of vulnerability he had. You knew going in that he could very well lose, sometimes badly, but that made the victories so much sweeter. He was the Little Engine That Could, casting aside concerns about an opponent's skill or youth or whatever other numerous advantages they usually had on him. With a plucky smile and "aw shucks" manner about him, he just went out there and gave every ounce of his being. He didn't always come out on top, often due to his own excesses away from the ring, but that only added to his aura. This is a guy so popular in his time that he turned the uber-nice guy Ray Mancini into the villian when they met in January 1984, for no other reason than that he happened to be fighting Chacon. Everyone else had to take a back seat to him with the fans. Everybody.

For that reason, I see no reason or need to rank him anywhere. It's a moot point.
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Old 09-13-2007, 06:36 AM   #4
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Default Re: Bobby Chacon

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Originally Posted by salsanchezfan
Ranking fighters is a fruitless exercise, especially in the case of Chacon. No, he was never the best fighter out there, but it hardly mattered.

He was in consistently exciting fights; somewhat like Gatti, only perhaps a bit better all around, he gave the impression that he would rather die than lose a fight, and fought with the abandon that would suggest. In his featherweight days he was quicker and a bit more slippery; by the time he hit 130 pounds, age and bad habits had caught up with him, and he relied mainly on that big right hand, a good chin, and more guts than any sane human should have.

One saw in Chacon a fighter of some skill and a huge heart, but I think the reason most of his diehard fans clung to him was the aura of vulnerability he had. You knew going in that he could very well lose, sometimes badly, but that made the victories so much sweeter. He was the Little Engine That Could, casting aside concerns about an opponent's skill or youth or whatever other numerous advantages they usually had on him. With a plucky smile and "aw shucks" manner about him, he just went out there and gave every ounce of his being. He didn't always come out on top, often due to his own excesses away from the ring, but that only added to his aura. This is a guy so popular in his time that he turned the uber-nice guy Ray Mancini into the villian when they met in January 1984, for no other reason than that he happened to be fighting Chacon. Everyone else had to take a back seat to him with the fans. Everybody.

For that reason, I see no reason or need to rank him anywhere. It's a moot point.
So you don't rank him because he was popular and/or partied a lot?

I can't quite follow your logic.
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Old 09-13-2007, 07:31 AM   #5
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Default Re: Bobby Chacon

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Originally Posted by Sizzle
So you don't rank him because he was popular and/or partied a lot?

I can't quite follow your logic.
What Sal is saying i think, is that for him at least, Chacon rises above the need to be ranked due to the fact that his sheer heart, courage and ability to excite beyond ones wildest expectiations will not be rewarded by a ranking. His worth rises far above the mere stats and black and white record the man has left behind.

Sal actually says he was never the best fighter out there, but i must add that at his best he was a fine fighter. Possibly one of those guys that could have won a bit easier than he did in certain fights but that was what made'th the man. I think his best weight may have been 126, but am no expert on this one.
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Old 09-13-2007, 10:04 AM   #6
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Default Re: Bobby Chacon

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Originally Posted by Sizzle
So you don't rank him because he was popular and/or partied a lot?

I can't quite follow your logic.

.................John's partially right; basically, I don't like the idea of ranking fighters at all. Never understood the point of it. I guess what I meant is that when I watch him go life or death with Limon or Boza or someone, the last thing in the world I'm worried about is "Oh wow; where should I rank him based on this?" Who cares?
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Old 09-13-2007, 05:18 PM   #7
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Default Re: Bobby Chacon

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Originally Posted by salsanchezfan
.................John's partially right; basically, I don't like the idea of ranking fighters at all. Never understood the point of it. I guess what I meant is that when I watch him go life or death with Limon or Boza or someone, the last thing in the world I'm worried about is "Oh wow; where should I rank him based on this?" Who cares?
Where Chacon is concerned, I absolutely agree with this.

Eventually, I hope to mature beyond my own proclivity for ranking fighters, but this bottomless well of threads which fill ESB Classic would be considerably shallower without such fodder for idle banter.

I watched Chacon lose to Arguello, and to Boza-Edwards in 14, then watched as he incredibly resurrected his championship career in the fourth match against his arch-enemy Limon. (They despised each other so much that they were exchanging insults during the tenth round of their previous bout. Yet, they embraced at the end of their final classic, remarkably burying the hatchet one and for all, having finally earned one another's respect.) I was sick with the flu while watching Chacon/Limon IV, but lept to my feet as Schoolboy unloaded the right which floored Bazooka, waving Limon towards the deck with body English at the screen, then jumping up and down with arms thrust up as he hit the floor, certain that Chacon had secured the points win with that instant (and that was indeed the difference in the scoring).

Having watched Chacon lose to Boza Edwards, I was holding my breath as he went into the rematch, agonized over his cuts and knockdowns he hadn't sustained in their first bout, only to see him mount a furious rally again to pull it out. (These performances by Chacon were even more amazing when you consider that his previous losses to Arguello and Boza Edwards were largely due to his running out of gas.) The way he was going, he was threatening to make Saad Muhammad's fights look dull. (I will always appreciate that Chacon made the "Fright Doctor" Ferdie Pacheco eat his words, after Pacheco kept whining that Bobby should be stopped on cuts. As Pacheco had to be the one interviewing Chacon in the ring afterwards, it was priceless to see and hear him sheepishly admit to Chacon that he was wrong.)

Although I well understand and envy your aversion to ranking fighters, I have to ask: Who ever had more charisma than Bobby Chacon? (And who had a more picturesque follow-through with the right hand? When he committed to delivering it, he held nothing back. Sweet flip of the elbow.)

Chacon truthfully said that whenever he was around for the final scheduled round, he always went for the knockout. What more could a fan ask for?

There's this romantic notion I've always had that the referee prematurely stopped his match with Mancini to protect Boom-Boom. By that stage of Chacon's career, it was probably otherwise necessary to kill him to stop him.

If Chacon had possessed the physical conditioning of his maturity during his gifted youth, with the legs and defensive skills he had then, who knows how far might he have gone?
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Old 09-13-2007, 05:21 PM   #8
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Default Re: Bobby Chacon

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnThomas1
What Sal is saying i think, is that for him at least, Chacon rises above the need to be ranked due to the fact that his sheer heart, courage and ability to excite beyond ones wildest expectiations will not be rewarded by a ranking. His worth rises far above the mere stats and black and white record the man has left behind.

Sal actually says he was never the best fighter out there, but i must add that at his best he was a fine fighter. Possibly one of those guys that could have won a bit easier than he did in certain fights but that was what made'th the man. I think his best weight may have been 126, but am no expert on this one.
Why do you pick anorexic women for your avatars?
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Old 09-14-2007, 02:48 AM   #9
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Default Re: Bobby Chacon

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Originally Posted by Street Lethal
Why do you pick anorexic women for your avatars?
Because what you and your drones call anorexic the rest of the world call ***y. Comprehendo?
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Old 09-14-2007, 10:36 PM   #10
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Default Re: Bobby Chacon

The Edwards fights were indeed wars. But if you want to see some truely classic Chacon Bouts. Check out the Chacon fights against Rafael "Bazooka" Limon. Unforgettable brutale wars! All of them!
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Old 09-15-2007, 03:17 AM   #11
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Default Re: Bobby Chacon

I would not mind seeing the classic Bobby "Schoolboy" Chacon/Danny "Little Red" Lopez nine round performance from LA in it's entirety, posted online. Schoolboy drops the great Little Red from the unbeaten ranks. Great quality footage. (I saw a clip of the climax years ago.)
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Old 09-16-2007, 04:18 PM   #12
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Default Re: Bobby Chacon

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Originally Posted by Flabby Gut
I loved watching Chacon's battles with Boza Edwards in early 83' and with Bazooka Limon in late 1982. His wife Valerie had commited suicide and begged him to retire prior to these fights. These were fights for the ages. Does anyone think his fight with Mancini was stopped too early in 1984? Do you think the referee was thinking about Du Ku Kim and jumped the gun - so to speak? Chacon was a real treat to watch. What a nice guy. What a fighter!
Yeah, I think Mancini/Chacon was stopped too early. (Then again, too many of Chacon's fights that he shouldn't have been allowed to continue in were matches he won! Go figure.) I'm sure the referee was thinking of Mancini/Kim, especially with Boom-Boom in there. (I wonder if it would have begun to weigh on Mancini as well at some point. By that stage of Schoolboy's career, it sometimes seemed that Bobby would have to be killed to be stopped.)
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