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Old 09-16-2007, 09:23 PM   #121
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Default Re: Many people consider Sugar Ray Robinson the GOAT...

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Originally Posted by China_hand_Joe
He was years off 37. Don't exaggerate stuff mate, I hate it when people do that.
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Old 09-16-2007, 09:32 PM   #122
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Default Re: Many people consider Sugar Ray Robinson the GOAT...

What was an old man doing with the World Title anyway -questionmark-

There were less titles, less weights. Yet still old men like Robinson and Moore had no problems winning World Titles. What a joke.

The closest thing today, and a very, very rare exception is Hopkins. In the horrific LHW division. And that is a fraudulent reign anyway and Dawson and the like beat him.

Old men winning titles, somewhat frequently is a sign of a weak era. When the few exceptions are so exceptionally sucessful, it is usually a sign of weak competition.

Like Phil Taylor was in darts, in the dark old days.

Sugar Ray Robinson is Phil Taylor. Basilio is Wayne Mardle or something.
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Old 09-16-2007, 09:37 PM   #123
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Default Re: Many people consider Sugar Ray Robinson the GOAT...

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Originally Posted by China_hand_Joe
What was an old man doing with the World Title anyway -questionmark-
An absoulte world class talent. p4p #1 all time perhaps.

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There were less titles, less weights. Yet still old men like Robinson and Moore had no problems winning World Titles. What a joke.
Now who's exaggerating? Robinson was nowhere near as old as Moore or Hopkins when having great wins. Also, Lewis was older than Robinson when champ at the highest level.
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Old 09-16-2007, 09:37 PM   #124
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Default Re: Many people consider Sugar Ray Robinson the GOAT...

If we overlook it for Robinson and Phil Taylor, we should overlook it for ATG Calzaghe too.
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Old 09-16-2007, 09:39 PM   #125
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Default Re: Many people consider Sugar Ray Robinson the GOAT...

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If we overlook it for Robinson and Phil Taylor, we should overlook it for ATG Calzaghe too.
Robinson had a really high level of competition. Calzaghe didn't.

Is Phil Taylor that darts player?
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Old 09-16-2007, 09:41 PM   #126
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Default Re: Many people consider Sugar Ray Robinson the GOAT...

Yes. Taylor like Calzaghe and Robinson, was supreme compared to the competition. We don't take anything away because he was good regardless. The rest though. We rip apart for being sub-par.
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Old 09-16-2007, 09:44 PM   #127
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Default Re: Many people consider Sugar Ray Robinson the GOAT...

Kid Gavlin is an ATG. Fritzie Zivic was a wonderful fighter, another ATG. Robinson beat them both.

You don't rate LaMotta at all. I see him as a top 20 MW, all time, and although he was short he was also a "big" MW, in that he struggled to get his body down.

So that's 3 ATG's as I see things, and as is generally accepted - and without really trying.

Calzaghe has 0 ATG's.

Does Phil Taylor?

Last edited by enzo; 06-20-2006 at 07:16 AM.
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Old 09-16-2007, 09:46 PM   #128
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Default Re: Many people consider Sugar Ray Robinson the GOAT...

All kinds of average darts players like Bobby George are see as ATGs and legends because their peers wer aful. It is almost identical to the situation in 1940s boxing.
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Old 09-16-2007, 09:50 PM   #129
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Default Re: Many people consider Sugar Ray Robinson the GOAT...

Is Bobby George the one with all the gold?

Well look, it's all interesting and that, but you've basicallly done 0 to convince me to even have a look at the status of guys like Zivic and Gavlin. I'm not actually convinced you know very much about them at all.

The weird thing is i am usually quite hard on Robinson and his level of competion, but the reason is that there were better fighters out there that he could have taken on.

For example, if he'd fought Burley, Williams and Booker, these probably would have been the three best fighters he'd ever fought.

So there's a long way for me to go before I can be made to understand your point of view. Because you haven't even dealt with the "weaker" fighters of the era, the ones Robinson took on.
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Old 09-16-2007, 09:51 PM   #130
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Default Re: Many people consider Sugar Ray Robinson the GOAT...

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Is Bobby George the one with all the gold?

Well look, it's all interesting and that, but you've basicallly done 0 to convince me to even have a look at the status of guys like Zivic and Gavlin. I'm not actually convinced you know very much about them at all.

The weird thing is i am usually quite hard on Robinson and his level of competion, but the reason is that there were better fighters out there that he could have taken on.

For example, if he'd fought Burley, Williams and Booker, these probably would have been the three best fighters he'd ever fought.

So there's a long way for me to go before I can be made to understand your point of view. Because you haven't even dealt with the "weaker" fighters of the era, the ones Robinson took on.
Yeah that guy. Top 10 Modrn players would hammer him. Just remember the comparison in the future.

I soon have almost conclusive evidence of how bad the era was mate. I promise you that.
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Old 09-16-2007, 09:55 PM   #131
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Default Re: Many people consider Sugar Ray Robinson the GOAT...

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Originally Posted by China_hand_Joe
Yeah that guy. Top 10 Modrn players would hammer him. Just remember the comparison in the future.

I soon have almost conclusive evidence of how bad the era was mate. I promise you that.
Darts probably has less to do with internal than almost any other sport. Boxing has the most out of any sport, somewhere in the tune of 99% according to some.

Anyway, when you wipe out the 40's for quality, please don't forget the black murderers row. It would be a shame if they missed out on the devestation of their era, because they sure as shit missed out on the credit for making it the very best.
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Old 09-16-2007, 09:59 PM   #132
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Default Re: Many people consider Sugar Ray Robinson the GOAT...

When do you think boxig rpughly started becoming high quality mate -questionmark-

I know it was gradual, but can you list an example time when you think it would have been vastly weaker -qm-
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Old 09-16-2007, 10:00 PM   #133
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Default Re: Many people consider Sugar Ray Robinson the GOAT...

I don't think it was gradual.
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Old 09-16-2007, 10:02 PM   #134
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Default Re: Many people consider Sugar Ray Robinson the GOAT...

When abouts do you reckon -qm-
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Old 09-16-2007, 10:05 PM   #135
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Default Re: Many people consider Sugar Ray Robinson the GOAT...



When abouts do I reckon what you crazy monkey?

Look, the simplest way to put it would be this; I don't think Langford would have any problems beating Calzaghe under his ruleset. I think he would knock Joe out probably early and probably with a body attack.

The crazy monkey thing isn't meant to be disparaging, just the question made me laugh is all.
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