Do alphabet titles dilute fighters legacies and punish them in the long run? - Page 3

GPater11093 · 09-02-2009, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teeto

He's going to bring up the wbo thing i think, or did hop get that as well actually? Can't remember.

cant mine either, CBA checking aswell

think he has a fair shout anyway

teeto · 09-02-2009, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GPater11093

cant mine either, CBA checking aswell

think he has a fair shout anyway

Course he's a fair shout, the man was THE middleweight champion, no two ways about it.

TBooze · 09-02-2009, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GPater11093

TBooze would you not say Hopkins was a universal world champion?

I would... But there (has, has been mentioned) are others who stop the truly universal recognition thing.

In fact as the sport stands at the moment, I would say it is near impossible that we will ever have a Universal champion again.

ThinBlack · 11-05-2012, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flea Man

To an extent. I think it allows certain fighters not to face other title holders because in their mind they already have a title.

If there was only one champion people would still want to fight him to get the title. People can hide behind ABC titles and avoid facing 'the man' (who, regardless of the title he holds is usually recognisable in a division) due to them already holding a 'belt'.

That's a great opinion.The only time you usually saw people unify back in the day, was due to some huge money being earned.I will always respect Salvador Sanchez, Aaron Pryor, and Larry Holmes, but to some extent, they could have unified.

lufcrazy · 11-05-2012, 01:12 PM

Before I start, I will say that I love the purity of linearity and idealistically this would be the way forward, but it isn't for 2 main reasons:

1) Prestige
2) Lack of enforcement

1) the prestige right now i in picking up a title and unifying. That's the reality we live in today. A boxer gets their promoter to play the sanctioning game, they earn a title shot and they usually seek unification providing equal terms can be secured.

2) a lineal claimant has no requirement to face anyone of any worth (think Foreman 94-97). Whilst the Alpha rankings are paid for, the idea is sound in that a man should face his best challengers.

Pretending that there is only one champ per division is futile as is pretending the belts mean nothing. The reality is the belts are what the fighters seek and there can be upwards of 5 claimants at anyone time. opefully they'll unify claims but more often than not we just have to decide ourselves who the best of the bunch is.

Saying that, context has to be remembered here in that unifying 3 or 4 belts is akin to the 30-60's crowd defending against their top 3-4 contenders.

they don't dilute anything, they just make it harder to compare and evaluate.

thistle1 · 11-05-2012, 01:59 PM

these fights unless fought against a truly regarded opponent, should only been seen as "just another fight"...

but IF against an accepted top notch opponent, then OK, rated & pointed in the case of a BoxRec type computer scoring system.

but as for Legacy, counted If ONLY against a true opponent!

Unforgiven · 11-05-2012, 06:32 PM

It's the alphabet belts combined with the excess of weight divisions that really devalues things.
I don't think it necessarily dilutes fighters' legacies. It depends on who is rating the legacy. It has tended to destroy the concept of a world title though.
It just gets ridiculous.
Some of the younger fans say things like "____ an ATG ? You must be smoking crack. He's only won four world titles !"

Punisher73 · 11-06-2012, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TBooze

On lots of occasions; but the last truly generally considered universal world champion would be Mike Tyson who lost that title in May 1989.

That is where my thinking was going. In the case of Tyson, I think that it helped his legacy because he unified all the seperate titles and showed that he was the best at that time.

Without any unification of the titles, it hurts the fighters because no one knows who was really the best because you have so many world champions at the same time.

AlFrancis · 11-06-2012, 10:09 AM

I think alphabet titles dilute the legacies of contenders of the past.
As for the legacies of ABC champions, I'd say on the whole it probably enhances them even on here, the classic, apart from a few people.

11-05-2012, 01:12 PM	#35
lufcrazy requiescat in pace East Side VIP Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: England, Up North Posts: 22,448 vCash: 330	Re: Do alphabet titles dilute fighters legacies and punish them in the long run? Before I start, I will say that I love the purity of linearity and idealistically this would be the way forward, but it isn't for 2 main reasons: 1) Prestige 2) Lack of enforcement 1) the prestige right now i in picking up a title and unifying. That's the reality we live in today. A boxer gets their promoter to play the sanctioning game, they earn a title shot and they usually seek unification providing equal terms can be secured. 2) a lineal claimant has no requirement to face anyone of any worth (think Foreman 94-97). Whilst the Alpha rankings are paid for, the idea is sound in that a man should face his best challengers. Pretending that there is only one champ per division is futile as is pretending the belts mean nothing. The reality is the belts are what the fighters seek and there can be upwards of 5 claimants at anyone time. opefully they'll unify claims but more often than not we just have to decide ourselves who the best of the bunch is. Saying that, context has to be remembered here in that unifying 3 or 4 belts is akin to the 30-60's crowd defending against their top 3-4 contenders. they don't dilute anything, they just make it harder to compare and evaluate.
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11-05-2012, 01:59 PM	#36
thistle1 Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,681 vCash: 1000	Re: Do alphabet titles dilute fighters legacies and punish them in the long run? these fights unless fought against a truly regarded opponent, should only been seen as "just another fight"... but IF against an accepted top notch opponent, then OK, rated & pointed in the case of a BoxRec type computer scoring system. but as for Legacy, counted If ONLY against a true opponent!
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11-05-2012, 06:32 PM	#37
Unforgiven Undisputed Champion East Side VIP Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 10,720 vCash: 1000	Re: Do alphabet titles dilute fighters legacies and punish them in the long run? It's the alphabet belts combined with the excess of weight divisions that really devalues things. I don't think it necessarily dilutes fighters' legacies. It depends on who is rating the legacy. It has tended to destroy the concept of a world title though. It just gets ridiculous. Some of the younger fans say things like "____ an ATG ? You must be smoking crack. He's only won four world titles !"
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11-06-2012, 10:09 AM	#39
AlFrancis Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Granada, Spain. Posts: 3,932 vCash: 1000	Re: Do alphabet titles dilute fighters legacies and punish them in the long run? I think alphabet titles dilute the legacies of contenders of the past. As for the legacies of ABC champions, I'd say on the whole it probably enhances them even on here, the classic, apart from a few people.
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