Do you consider Hamed/Barrera a "schooling"?

[JIM KELLY]

naw, naz was just out classed.

[NO MAS]

Originally Posted by Betty Swollocks

not a schooling no.
for schooling think Hatton-Mayweather. For clock cleaning, thing Pacman-Hatton.

For once Betty I gotta agree with you...

[Mandanda]

Imo it wasn't a schooling...but Barrera was always one step ahead. Naz wasn't getting destroyed but he was getting outclassed for sure. His lack of fundamentals and Barrera's neat boxing that night was clear to see and was reason why Naz lost his 0.

[JIM KELLY]

I expected naz to land something and drop Marco, resulting in a hard fought off win..but nope, naz was just out fought!

I recall when Barry Mcguigan was yelling out that naz should fight his unorthodox style..

[gasman]

It really boils down to what you define as a schooling. Getting schooled doesnt necessarily mean that your opponent beat the living daylights out of you, if that is the case you can use this term when describing how a crude brawler dishes out a 12 round beating to another guy.

For me schooling is when a well schooled boxer, i.e. Barrera being the example here, totally neuralises the his opponents style and imposes his own style and superior boxing intellect, thus dominating his man throughout.

For me this is the beauty of that Hamed - Barerra fight, Barrera showcased his full arsenal against a guy like Hamed who was the hot favourite and unbeaten. No one else ever did this to Hamed. Full kudos to Barrera. Prime Barrera was really something else.

[FLINT ISLAND]

Outclassed rather than schooled

[Addie]

Originally Posted by gasman

It really boils down to what you define as a schooling. Getting schooled doesnt necessarily mean that your opponent beat the living daylights out of you, if that is the case you can use this term when describing how a crude brawler dishes out a 12 round beating to another guy.

For me schooling is when a well schooled boxer, i.e. Barrera being the example here, totally neuralises the his opponents style and imposes his own style and superior boxing intellect, thus dominating his man throughout.

For me this is the beauty of that Hamed - Barerra fight, Barrera showcased his full arsenal against a guy like Hamed who was the hot favourite and unbeaten. No one else ever did this to Hamed. Full kudos to Barrera. Prime Barrera was really something else.

Marco Antonio Barrera was a truly exceptional fighter. There was nothing he couldn't do. He could fight effectively on the front foot, the back foot - he could throw 4-5 punch combinations, and counterpunch with the best of them. He had a great chin, his stamina was never questionable, and he had two fisted power. He was simply a much better fighter than Hamed, more dimensions to his offense, and his balance was exceptional, arguably Hamed's biggest weakness.

There was no conspiracy theory. Hamed was not a shot item, and he didn't get defeated because he was unmotivated. He lost because Barrera was a better, more well rounded fighter than he was. Simple as that, in my estimation. Barrera could have beaten him on the offensive as well I thought, but he was an intelligent fighter, why put yourself in harms way against a hard puncher like Hamed? He had it all figured out.

[gasman]

Originally Posted by Addie

Marco Antonio Barrera was a truly exceptional fighter. There was nothing he couldn't do. He could fight effectively on the front foot, the back foot - he could throw 4-5 punch combinations, and counterpunch with the best of them. He had a great chin, his stamina was never questionable, and he had two fisted power. He was simply a much better fighter than Hamed, more dimensions to his offense, and his balance was exceptional, arguably Hamed's biggest weakness.

There was no conspiracy theory. Hamed was not a shot item, and he didn't get defeated because he was unmotivated. He lost because Barrera was a better, more well rounded fighter than he was. Simple as that, in my estimation. Barrera could have beaten him on the offensive as well I thought, but he was an intelligent fighter, why put yourself in harms way against a hard puncher like Hamed? He had it all figured out.

Very well said. Y'know your last line rang so true. Barrera used his great boxing skills to outbox Hamed, but in the last round, even though his corner told him to continue boxing, he couldnt resist going for the KO. Hamed was sent out in the last to try for the KO, but Barrera was so confident he also faced Hamed in the middle of the ring and landed 33 punches to Hamed's 7.

I also agree with you that Hamed wasnt shot, that is just one of so many lame excuses. How old was Hamed when he fought Barrera?

[Addie]

Originally Posted by gasman

Very well said. Y'know your last line rang so true. Barrera used his great boxing skills to outbox Hamed, but in the last round, even though his corner told him to continue boxing, he couldnt resist going for the KO. Hamed was sent out in the last to try for the KO, but Barrera was so confident he also faced Hamed in the middle of the ring and landed 33 punches to Hamed's 7.

I also agree with you that Hamed wasnt shot, that is just one of so many lame excuses. How old was Hamed when he fought Barrera?

Naseem Hamed was 27 years at the time of the Barrera fight I believe. He had never been in a war, unless you include his fight with Kelley. Personally, i have a different take on the Kelley fight. The real hard shots were landed by Hamed in that bout, but he himself was knocked down multiple times as a result of poor balance. I don't consider it a tough, career-changing fight.

If either of the two fighters had a rough career going into that fight in 2001, it was Marco Antonio Barrera. Mckinney and Morales 1, those were real career changing wars, long periods of hard exchanges. Hamed never experienced a fight like either of those two, so the notion that Hamed was a shot item is absolutely absurd to me. His performance mirrored many of his earlier performances, only the opposition this time was A+ as opposed to be C+.

Good point regarding the last round. Marco was a terrific offensive fighter, with all of his strengths, this is where he truely excelled. Early on, his right hand was a little rusty but when re-emerged after the Junior Jones defeateds, he acquired a straight right, as well as a right uppercut. He was a two-fisted fighter, and his combinations were so smooth. He just had the natural talent. People speak of Hamed being this "incredible talent". Barrera was more talented in my estimation.

One last point. Emmanuel Stewart should take a great deal of responsibility for the loss aswell as Named in my estimation. He was commentating on Marco's fight previously against the aging veteren Jesus Salud. He showcased his boxing ability, his counterpunching particular, as well as his foot movement, and Emmanuel was quick to point out how much of an improved item Marco had become since the Erik Morales fight. He almost seemed to be picking him in a fight against his own man, Hamed, and yet he never seemed to get a gameplan in place.

This is one of many reasons why I consider Stewart an overrated trainer, but even Freddie Roach couldn't have changed the fate of the prince in 2001. Barrera was one of the best fighters in the world at that point in time, whereas Hamed had feasted on a weak division for his entire career. Bungu was a good win, and so was the Kelley fight, but these are B level fighters at best we are talking about here. Barrera will go down as one of the greatest to have ever laced them up, and he earned that during a 20 year career.

[BamBam]

Not a schooling just a clear points victory but without it being a procession. I think 116-112 (which it would have been on 2 cards had it not been for the ringpost incident) would have been a fair reflection of this. 8-4 would have summed it up nicely. Clear and concise without being embarrasing or crushing

[Raashid]

I would say yes, my interpretation of "schooling" I suppose is "being given a boxing lesson". Barrera used fundamentals, tactics and ring knowledge to negate Hamed's every move, so I would class it as a schooling.
However, I don't think he was outclassed, which to me means one fighter is at a level above another. Although Barrera was superior, Hamed's physical assets, i.e. power and athleticism enabled him to compete, if not effectively.

[Locke]

An absolute schooling. The scorecards were ludicrous to say the least because Hamed didn't do anything in the fight.

[D-MAC]

A mild schooling, but not in the same league as Calzaghe > Lacy or Hopkins > Pavlik.

Naz put enough rounds in the bag to make it "mildly" competitive (a couple of good rounds in the middle of the fight from what I can remember), but over the long haul MAB out-fought and out-thought him.

[DDA365]

I think the thing that makes it an emphatic victory for me is the fact that Hamed was behind on the scorecards

desperately needed to do somehting in the last 2 rounds, and this is when he could not do anything and Barrera really stepped up and sealed the deal in style

[nickythekid]

i would say exposed for what he was