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Old 09-14-2007, 02:50 PM   #1
MrSmall
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Default Best white boxers?

Anyone who isn't BLACK or ASIAN, is where my criteria lies. I don't mean to be racist. Mexicans and puerto ricans who aren't BLACK count here too, don't gimme that latin and hispanic junk.

So give it to me, lads, the best white guys out there. Strangely no heavyweights spring to mind, but a lot of small dudes do.
Give me a top 10 list fellas.
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Old 09-14-2007, 03:10 PM   #2
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Default Re: Best white boxers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSmall
Anyone who isn't BLACK or ASIAN, is where my criteria lies. I don't mean to be racist. Mexicans and puerto ricans who aren't BLACK count here too, don't gimme that latin and hispanic junk.

So give it to me, lads, the best white guys out there. Strangely no heavyweights spring to mind, but a lot of small dudes do.
Give me a top 10 list fellas.
Are Native Americans also to be excluded from consideration here? Furthermore, Italian's are also Latino's, strictly speaking. Should they also be off the table?

That ethnic and nationalistic pride is an inherent part of the sporting culture cannot be denied, whether in a "positive" or "negative" context. It is what it is, and should be acknowledged as such. This is the Classic Forum, populated with intelligent, thoughtful posters, who will understand how to interpret your question without taking mindless offense.

Concerning ethnicity and nationalism, it's a valid consideration to take into account what the majorities and minorities are in a particular region of the world. These are considerations used to generate revenue, so it would be disingenuous to avoid such questions. (But I say that as a member of a tiny subminority who is indifferent to such issues.)
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Old 09-14-2007, 03:26 PM   #3
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Default Re: Best white boxers?

From an anthropological standpoint there is no such thing as a white person. It is a cultural idea. But on to your question-

The best "white" boxer of all time in terms of resume is in my opinion Harry Greb. Perhaps the greatest boxer of all time.

Other names that deserve consideration include Dutch Sam, Bob Fitzsimmons, Terry McGovern, Benny Leonard, Jimmy Wilde, Mickey Walker, Willie Pep.

I guess none of these guys are out there though.
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Old 09-14-2007, 03:43 PM   #4
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Default Re: Best white boxers?

Tunney, Loughran, Schmeling.
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Old 09-14-2007, 03:46 PM   #5
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Default Re: Best white boxers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tobkhan
What about Barney Ross?
My apologies.

If I listed all the names who needed to be mentioned I would be here a long time.
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Old 09-14-2007, 04:35 PM   #6
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Default Re: Best white boxers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tobkhan
Well, okay let´s limit this to 10-15 names. What would be your choices?
Dutch Sam,
Jimmy Barry,
Bob Fitzsimmons,
Tommy Ryan
Terry McGovern,
Benny Leonard,
Jimmy Wilde,
Mickey Walker,
Barney Ross,
Willie Pep,

Last edited by janitor; 09-14-2007 at 05:13 PM.
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Old 09-14-2007, 04:57 PM   #7
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Default Re: Best white boxers?

On average, 20% of "black" Americans' genes are northern European. Proportions vary according to the individual--Muhammad Ali, for instance, probably had a great deal of northern European DNA. Jimmy Ellis as well, in addition to many others.

Should we consider "black" Americans white (as they do in many African countries), black (as they do in America), or do it on a case-by-case basis?
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Old 09-14-2007, 05:42 PM   #8
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Default Re: Best white boxers?

It's a racist thread. Snuff it.
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Old 09-14-2007, 05:46 PM   #9
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Default Re: Best white boxers?

Harry Greb
Willie Pep
Benny Leonard
Barney Ross
Gene Tunney
Mickey Walker
Rocky Marciano
Jimmy Wilde
Tommy Loughran
Terry McGovern
Bob Fitzsimmons
Billy Conn
Abe Attell
Maxie Rosenbloom
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Old 09-14-2007, 05:48 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Street Lethal
It's a racist thread. Snuff it.
Not racist so much as impossible to categorize. As Janitor says, "race" doesn't exist. Human genetics are a constant continuum from one set of traits to another.
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Old 09-14-2007, 05:55 PM   #11
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Default Re: Best white boxers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cross_trainer
Not racist so much as impossible to categorize. As Janitor says, "race" doesn't exist. Human genetics are a constant continuum from one set of traits to another.
Race exists whether it's genetics or not, because society categorizes people based on skin color and so on, and they were doing that long before they even knew what genetics was.

Asking who is the greatest white fighter is an instance of racial thinking that reflects the standard sort of run-of-the-mill racism. That's my point. I think threads like this are terrible.

It's okay to ask who is the greatest Japanese fighter, but it is racist to ask who is the greatest Asian fighter.

So I agree with you and Janitor about race, but don't think that changes the character of this thread.
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Old 09-14-2007, 06:01 PM   #12
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Default Re: Best white boxers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Street Lethal
Race exists whether it's genetics or not, because society categorizes people based on skin color and so on, and they were doing that long before they even knew what genetics was.

Asking who is the greatest white fighter is an instance of racial thinking that reflects the standard sort of run-of-the-mill racism. That's my point. I think threads like this are terrible.

It's okay to ask who is the greatest Japanese fighter, but it is racist to ask who is the greatest Asian fighter.

So I agree with you and Janitor about race, but don't think that changes the character of this thread.
Fair enough, although I'd consider "best Asian fighter" to be more of a geographical question unless it referred to Asians as a race.

In any event, I don't think it's possible to delete this thread, since "great white hopes" and similar silliness have always existed in boxing.
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Old 09-14-2007, 06:21 PM   #13
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Default Re: Best white boxers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cross_trainer
Not racist so much as impossible to categorize. As Janitor says, "race" doesn't exist. Human genetics are a constant continuum from one set of traits to another.
There are congenital genetic diseases and which effect Hebrews (specifically Ashkenaki Jews), and sickle cell anemia, which effects primarily people of African ancestry, but also those of Mediterranean and Middle Eastern descent. (This is an issue which concern those who share my lineage.) Sickle cell anemia is a biological adaptation which protects against malaria in Africa, but is a liability in malaria-free America. Likewise, freckle faced redheads would be at a more significant risk for skin cancer in equatorial regions. There is overlap, but one either has the gene for cystic fibrosis or not. (My best friend was born with the CF gene. CF is most common among Europeans and Ashkenaki Jews.)

Within a boxing context however, this is a bit harder to pin down. Ali played up the notion of himself having an Irish ancestry to the hilt, when he took on Blue Lewis in Dublin.
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Old 09-14-2007, 07:08 PM   #14
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Default Re: Best white boxers?

112
Jimmy Wilde
Fidel LaBarba
Frankie Genaro
Johnny Coulon
Benny Lynch

118
Terry McGovern
Harry Jeffra
Pete Herman
Owen Moran

126
Willie Pep
Freddie Miller
Johnny Dundee
Abe Attell
Battling Battalino
Johnny Kilbane

135
Benny Leonard
Barney Ross
Tony Canzoneri

147
Mickey Walker
Carmen Basilio
Tommy Ryan

160
Harry Greb
Stanley Ketchel
Bob Fitzsimmons
Jake LaMotta
Marcel Cerdan

175
Billy Conn
Tommy Loughran
Maxie Rosenbloom

HW
Jack Dempsey
Gene Tunney
Rocky Marciano
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Old 09-14-2007, 08:27 PM   #15
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Default Re: Best white boxers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flabby Gut
Calzaghe, Kessler, Klitschko, De La Hoya, Hatton, Bute, Povetkim, Malianggi, Pavlik, Lee, Duddy, Diaconu
good list
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