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Old 09-10-2009, 04:51 PM   #16
GPater11093
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Default Re: Alexis Arguello - Discussion

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Originally Posted by fleaman View Post
Apparently he begged his Mother to allow him to turn pro after handling himself well in a sparring session with Olivares. Might not be true.
I have heard that before aswell
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Old 09-10-2009, 04:53 PM   #17
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Default Re: Alexis Arguello - Discussion

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I have heard that before aswell
Did you get my message on facebook. About Paul Hitchin?
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Old 09-10-2009, 04:59 PM   #18
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Default Re: Alexis Arguello - Discussion

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Did you get my message on facebook. About Paul Hitchin?
yeh just responded

How far would you agreee that Arguellos power came from his technique more than a 'natural power'?
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Old 09-10-2009, 06:31 PM   #19
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Default Re: Alexis Arguello - Discussion

There are a whole host of "quotable quotes" from Arguello. Here's one of my favorites.

Interviewer: "Did it bother you when Gannigan knocked you down."

Alexis: "Nah, first time ever I get knocked down, it scared the heck out of me, but I got used to it."

I love that one. Perhaps Fleaman can come up with a few.
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Old 09-10-2009, 06:41 PM   #20
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Default Re: Alexis Arguello - Discussion

Williams certainly had faster feet.
Carlos Ortiz might get a shout ,though his one shot power was not in this class imo.
Eder Jofre?
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Old 09-10-2009, 08:32 PM   #21
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Default Re: Alexis Arguello - Discussion

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I'll weigh in with a few random facts, opinions, and bits of trivia no one mentioned.

1; Alexis Arguello was not a talented and promising prospect. He lost two of his first five, and did not face an opponent who actually had a win on his record until his 14th pro fight. In his 26th fight he lost by TKO to a guy who was 5-6-0.

2; He lost his first bid for a world title when Ernesto Marcel scored a VERY clear 15 round decision over him. The ref considered stopping it after the 7th, but Arguello said he was okay and wanted to continue.

3; The fighter who beat seven shades of shit out of Olivares, and stopped him in 13, seemd to come out of nowhere. Even after this Arguello was widely regarded as just a skinny slugger.

4; When Arguello could no longer make the 126 pound limit comfortably, he seriously considered retiring rather than moving up. As boxing fans we can thank the gods that Alexis decided otherwise.

5; The first Escalera fight was the fight that really put Alexis on the map. Escalera was a fine champion who could both crack and box a bit. That's when people started to realize that Alexis was indeed something special.

6; At the time Alexis was one of only a handful of fighters to dominate 3 divisions. Back then, with fewer belts, and different weigh in rules, moving up through divisions was a lot harder.

7; If you have never seen the Arguello/Mancinni post-fight video, you have never witnessed the true spirit of a great warrior.

8; I'm getting long winded, so I'll close with this. Some of you may disagree, and you're free to do that, but if I were Jack Leow, I would make Kelly Pavlik live with tape of Arguello for at least 3 months day in and day out!
I agree with most of this except for #3. In fact, Arguello was already well known at that time having beaten Art Hafey, Enrique Garcia, Famoso Gomez, Valentin Galeano and of course Jose Legra, not to mention his title shot. But most of all, the report I saw on Boxrec is completely untrue. In fact, Olivares was, figuratively speaking, beating the crap out of Arguello. I believe it was the 10th and 12th he really lathered Arguello against the ropes in leather. The reports from the magazines I have, not to mention the fact that I have seen the fight, state that the momentum was entirely with Olivares going into the 13th. If you see the fight you will see Olivares resume his attack in the 13th. He was not winded at all as the 'report' in boxrec suggests. Olivares simply walked into a left hook. And with Arguello being one of the best finishers around, that was it on the followup. Also remember that Olivares lost the first five rounds, which will tell you how the fight was going since Ruben was ahead on points at the end. I always felt this said alot about Olivares, at 5'5" beating on an all time great who stood 5'10". I always liked Arguello, who I thought peaked beautifully at 135, but he got lucky that night against Olivares.

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Old 09-10-2009, 08:58 PM   #22
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Default Re: Alexis Arguello - Discussion

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I agree with most of this except for #3. In fact, Arguello was already well known at that time having beaten Art Hafey, Enrique Garcia, Famoso Gomez, Valentin Galeano and of course Jose Legra, not to mention his title shot. But most of all, the report I saw on Boxrec is completely untrue. In fact, Olivares was, figuratively speaking, beating the crap out of Arguello. I believe it was the 10th and 12th he really lathered Arguello against the ropes in leather. The reports from the magazines I have, not to mention the fact that I have seen the fight, state that the momentum was entirely with Olivares going into the 13th. If you see the fight you will see Olivares resume his attack in the 13th. He was not winded at all as the 'report' in boxrec suggests. Olivares simply walked into a left hook. And with Arguello being one of the best finishers around, that was it on the followup. Also remember that Olivares lost the first five rounds, which will tell you how the fight was going since Ruben was ahead on points at the end. I always felt this said alot about Olivares, at 5'5" beating on an all time great who stood 5'10". I always liked Arguello, who I thought peaked beautifully at 135, but he got lucky that night against Olivares.

Scartissue
I haven't seen Olivares/arguello in forever. I'll see if it's on you tube. what I meant when I referred to Arguello coming out of nowhere was that, as I recall, he was not favored to win. Very few people thought we were watching the rise of an all time great at that time.
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Old 09-10-2009, 10:39 PM   #23
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Default Re: Alexis Arguello - Discussion

That is true. For me he came out of nowhere with the Legra fight. I couldn't believe that one at the time and was curious as hell as to who was this Arguello dude. Although losing to Marcel - no shame, seriously underrated feather - I was again stunned when he took out Hafey. He really grew into that frame of his at 130 (he is my #1 Jr. lightweight of all time) and again at 135. I think he pushed the envelope at 140 despite the excellent showing against Pryor. In a nutshell, an alltime great at 130-135.

Scartissue
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Old 09-10-2009, 11:34 PM   #24
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Default Re: Alexis Arguello - Discussion

I'd still say Ike Williams was the most complete boxer-puncher, if we're talking about the Joe Louis type grounded, jabbing, stalking combination puncher.

Or maybe Joe Louis himself was.

Williams was known in his time to be a crippling body puncher, like Arguello. He was also known for his left hook like Arguello was known for his right, and, like Arguello, was just as potent with any other punch. Arguello might have had a marginally better defence and higher accuracy, but Williams was definitely quicker on his feet and with his hands.

There's not much in it, I think I just prefer the Louis/Williams/Carter style.
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Old 09-11-2009, 01:04 AM   #25
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Default Re: Alexis Arguello - Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by booradley View Post
There are a whole host of "quotable quotes" from Arguello. Here's one of my favorites.

Interviewer: "Did it bother you when Gannigan knocked you down."

Alexis: "Nah, first time ever I get knocked down, it scared the heck out of me, but I got used to it."

I love that one. Perhaps Fleaman can come up with a few.
Funnily enough this one goes with what Pater is asking;

'I'd take precision any day over power; as far as being tactical you know you have to see what's going on in there and also understand that for every punch that you or your opponent throws there's always a counter shot or two which you have to be ready to fire or defend.'

Manassa; I wouldn't say you're wrong. Louis, Williams and Arguello are amongst the best boxer-punchers of all-time, Arguello being the most 'static'.

Williams had much faster feet, luckily Arguello's lack of great movement allowed him to be in perfect position to set his feet. I think this is why he managed so many K.O's with either hand.

Pater; personally I think Arguello was heavy handed, but supplemented this with his accuracy and timing
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Old 09-11-2009, 01:25 AM   #26
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Default Re: Alexis Arguello - Discussion

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Originally Posted by booradley View Post
I'll weigh in with a few random facts, opinions, and bits of trivia no one mentioned.

1; Alexis Arguello was not a talented and promising prospect. He lost two of his first five, and did not face an opponent who actually had a win on his record until his 14th pro fight. In his 26th fight he lost by TKO to a guy who was 5-6-0.

2; He lost his first bid for a world title when Ernesto Marcel scored a VERY clear 15 round decision over him. The ref considered stopping it after the 7th, but Arguello said he was okay and wanted to continue.

3; The fighter who beat seven shades of shit out of Olivares, and stopped him in 13, seemd to come out of nowhere. Even after this Arguello was widely regarded as just a skinny slugger.

4; When Arguello could no longer make the 126 pound limit comfortably, he seriously considered retiring rather than moving up. As boxing fans we can thank the gods that Alexis decided otherwise.

5; The first Escalera fight was the fight that really put Alexis on the map. Escalera was a fine champion who could both crack and box a bit. That's when people started to realize that Alexis was indeed something special.

6; At the time Alexis was one of only a handful of fighters to dominate 3 divisions. Back then, with fewer belts, and different weigh in rules, moving up through divisions was a lot harder.

7; If you have never seen the Arguello/Mancinni post-fight video, you have never witnessed the true spirit of a great warrior.

8; I'm getting long winded, so I'll close with this. Some of you may disagree, and you're free to do that, but if I were Jack Leow, I would make Kelly Pavlik live with tape of Arguello for at least 3 months day in and day out!
Boo, you are a fan of Alexis as I am, and seems to be we both liked him a lot..... but I would like to clarify some of your points.... Let me expand....

Point 1
BoxRec does not have the records of all the boxers.... and that's why you see that most of Alexis oponents records at the begining of his pro career are pretty much blank.....which means BoxRec never got their records and therefore the info is incomplete....

The boxer you make reference with the record of 5-6-0 is Jorge Reyes, who did not defeat Arguello by TKO as it is said on BoxRec......It is misleading.... Arguello did not lose that fight the way that we understand a TKO.... He broke his left hand and couldn't continue fighting and therefore Reyes was declared the winner.....

Olivares team found out about Arguellos fracture and requested an Xray on Alexis hand around the time they fought.... they wanted to know if Alexis had any kind of metal on his hand, because he was dropping oponents with his left hook very easy.....

Point 5

Not true..... before Arguello beat Escalera, Alexis was already well known by many... you cant beat Olivares without people knowing...... I think the fights that put Arguello on the map were his fights against Marcel, Haffey, Hernandez, and of course Olivares....

I would like to add that Arguello is among the boxers who won three or more titles in different divisions and defended all of them succesfully.... meaning never lost his titles in the ring, and I think only him and Floyd are the ones who can claim such thing.

Peace.
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Old 09-11-2009, 02:10 AM   #27
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Default Re: Alexis Arguello - Discussion

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Not true..... before Arguello beat Escalera, Alexis was already well known by many... you cant beat Olivares without people knowing...... I think the fights that put Arguello on the map were his fights against Marcel, Haffey, Hernandez, and of course Olivares....
That's right, most people (except in Escalera's native Puerto Rico, perhaps) actually picked him to beat Escalera even the first time, and he was already being talked about for a possible magafight down the road with Duran.
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Old 09-11-2009, 02:11 AM   #28
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Default Re: Alexis Arguello - Discussion

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Boo, you are a fan of Alexis as I am, and seems to be we both liked him a lot..... but I would like to clarify some of your points.... Let me expand....

Point 1
BoxRec does not have the records of all the boxers.... and that's why you see that most of Alexis oponents records at the begining of his pro career are pretty much blank.....which means BoxRec never got their records and therefore the info is incomplete....

The boxer you make reference with the record of 5-6-0 is Jorge Reyes, who did not defeat Arguello by TKO as it is said on BoxRec......It is misleading.... Arguello did not lose that fight the way that we understand a TKO.... He broke his left hand and couldn't continue fighting and therefore Reyes was declared the winner.....

Olivares team found out about Arguellos fracture and requested an Xray on Alexis hand around the time they fought.... they wanted to know if Alexis had any kind of metal on his hand, because he was dropping oponents with his left hook very easy.....

Point 5

Not true..... before Arguello beat Escalera, Alexis was already well known by many... you cant beat Olivares without people knowing...... I think the fights that put Arguello on the map were his fights against Marcel, Haffey, Hernandez, and of course Olivares....

I would like to add that Arguello is among the boxers who won three or more titles in different divisions and defended all of them succesfully.... meaning never lost his titles in the ring, and I think only him and Floyd are the ones who can claim such thing.

Peace.
Good points as well, I think Boo will appreciate these.

Pater; good thread, I could talk about El Flaco Explosivo all day
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Old 09-11-2009, 02:19 AM   #29
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Default Re: Alexis Arguello - Discussion

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1; Alexis Arguello was not a talented and promising prospect.
Actually, he was noted for his raw talent (namely his punching power) following his blowout of Legra and record of KOs, but he didn't yet have the skills or polish to make full use of that potential.


Quote:
Originally Posted by booradley View Post
2; He lost his first bid for a world title when Ernesto Marcel scored a VERY clear 15 round decision over him. The ref considered stopping it after the 7th, but Arguello said he was okay and wanted to continue.
Although I had Marcel winning, I don't agree that that was a clear decision at all, and most other people generally didn't either. Also, he had Marcel hurt far worse during the middle rounds, and if that fight was held anywhere else but in his native Panama it very possibly would've been stopped in Arguello's favor.
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Old 09-11-2009, 02:24 AM   #30
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Default Re: Alexis Arguello - Discussion

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Actually, he was noted for his raw talent (namely his punching power) following his blowout of Legra and record of KOs, but he didn't yet have the skills or polish to make full use of that potential.




Although I had Marcel winning, I don't agree that that was a clear decision at all, and most other people generally didn't either. Also, he had Marcel hurt far worse during the middle rounds, and if that fight was held anywhere else but in his native Panama it very possibly would've been stopped in Arguello's favor.
Although Arguello had his moments I too had it pretty clearly for Marcel.

I will re-watch and re-score this weekend and post my card up (regardless of whether you care or notgives me something to do)
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