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Old 09-14-2007, 08:53 PM   #16
pipe wrenched
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Default Re: Why is Calzaghe's opposition considered trash?

I have been undecided since the announcement of the fight, but I am certainly starting to lean towards Calzaghe. Especially after reading about the future opponents he is looking for if he wins.
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Old 09-14-2007, 08:56 PM   #17
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Default Re: Why is Calzaghe's opposition considered trash?

Eubank was an old man. He had two more fights both losses and then retired, he was finished when he fought Calzhage, not a good perameter. Thats been the trend with Joe, his promoter has carefully matched him his entire career, picking guys at the perfect time, while avoiding some of the bigger names, and theres got to be a reason for it.
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Old 09-14-2007, 08:57 PM   #18
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Default Re: Why is Calzaghe's opposition considered trash?

Calazaghe is a great boxer, but his resume doesnt show that. Hes never beaten a great fighter like Jones or Hopkins, mostly above average middles like Benn, Eubank, and Lacy who was a overhyped super middlewieght himself. I give him credit for being on top for so long, I just wish he could of fought better opposition so people would give him more props.
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Old 09-14-2007, 08:57 PM   #19
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Default Re: Why is Calzaghe's opposition considered trash?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lefthook31
Eubank was an old man. He had two more fights both losses and then retired, he was finished when he fought Calzhage, not a good perameter. Thats been the trend with Joe, his promoter has carefully matched him his entire career, picking guys at the perfect time, while avoiding some of the bigger names, and theres got to be a reason for it.
Well neither Lacy or Kessler were picked at the perfect time (based on what you mean here) so this should tell us alot about him.
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Old 09-14-2007, 08:58 PM   #20
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Default Re: Why is Calzaghe's opposition considered trash?

BTW, where can I catch some Calzaghe fights?? Youtube has next to nothing of him in action (at least that I can find, only interviews and such), I only really saw him against Manfredo which didn't go to far. I saw the one round between him and Mitchell I think it was where he knocked Calz down only to have Calz dismantle his ass right after. Would love to see more of his action. (same for Kessler, I only really saw him fight Andrade)
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Old 09-14-2007, 09:00 PM   #21
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Default Re: Why is Calzaghe's opposition considered trash?

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Originally Posted by kg0208
Well neither Lacy or Kessler were picked at the perfect time (based on what you mean here) so this should tell us alot about him.
Lacy was certainly unproven, and considered what he really turned out to be, a one dimensional guy. He was popular because he fought on a major network and was matched against guys he could knockout and look spectacular against. His fight with Sheika should have tipped everyone off to what he really was all along. Leading up to the Calzahge fight, he had faced similar to worse opposition to Joe.
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Old 09-14-2007, 09:00 PM   #22
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Default Re: Why is Calzaghe's opposition considered trash?

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Originally Posted by Blocky
Calzaghe's opposition is average. It's not great, it's not bad, it's average.

He's fought proven elite fighters like Eubank.
He's fought solid contenders like Reid and Woodhall
He's fought awkward fighters like Salem and Bika
He's fought up and coming fighters like Lacy, Veit and a young Sheika
He's fought decent, top ten rated fighters like Mkertchian, Mitchell, Brewer

Lacy and Eubank are the only "named" fighters he's fought, sure - but he's in the SMW division - a division that has had two fatal flaws in the time that Calzaghe has been around

Flaw 1: It has been bereft of 'big name' fighters largely due to the legacy of fighters directly above and directly below. Fighters weren't getting past Hopkins at Middleweight and Fighters saw more money with Jones Jr at LHW - SMW was not a glamour division and as such, did not attract glamour (read, American known) fighters during Calzaghe's time period.

Calzaghe, being committed to defending his belt and wanting to establish himself as the greatest in his weight class never looked at going down in weight or up in weight - however he did put his feelers out for a Bernard Hopkins fight in 2002 that was all but signed until Hopkins demanded double money.

Flaw 2: Sven Ottke would not fight Joe Calzaghe. Ottke during his time was the only other fighter who a spotless record who held a title belt . (Despite Ottke having lost at least four fights in my eyes).

The SMW division had a bunch of talent that except for Calzaghe, were not standing tall above one another - people were trading wins and losses and until Lacy and now Kessler, no one really rised above the competition as a solid threat and contender to Calzaghe.

Excepting Ottke - the only two "dominant" fighters at SMW outside of Joe Calzaghe, were Jeff Lacy and now Mikkel Kessler

Both who he has/will be fighting and both he he has/will beat.

People can ***** and moan all they want about "Why didn't Joe go down to 160 or up to 175" - the fact is, he didn't - he has however fought the best available fighters in his division, a division he has cleared out and is about to clear out once more.
This is fair by all means.
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Old 09-14-2007, 09:02 PM   #23
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Default Re: Why is Calzaghe's opposition considered trash?

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Originally Posted by hughweb
No, the Thompson fights were two of the best-ever performances. He made Carl look like a donkey.

He was just weight-drained at 168 from the Close fights.
Yeah just like Tyson when he fought Williams, he hurt his knee. Everyone has an excuse. Bottom line, he lost, and never fought again after losing three in a row.
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Old 09-14-2007, 09:04 PM   #24
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Default Re: Why is Calzaghe's opposition considered trash?

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Originally Posted by Amsterdam
Granted, it's not fantastic opposition, not equaling his ability, but it's superior to Ottke's while dominating all but 1 of them.

In addition, it's about on par with Kostya Tszyu's wins. Tszyu is one of my favourites and is a heralded underrated talent, Tszyu was equally as ducked as Calzaghe was also.

In starting off with Eubank, he also fought Woodhall, Starie, Reid, Sheika and Brewer in relatively close proximity. This is very solid competition at the time considering he could not score a fight with Sven Ottke or Markus Beyer due to those two euro trash protected fighters either avoiding him or their promotional outfit avoiding it, especially Ottke.

Then he took on Veit. Then he took on Mitchell, a former lineal champion who won his title off of Frankie Liles and lost it to Bruno Girard in a close bout. Mitchell was in a controversial fight with the disgraceful Ottke before facing Calzaghe. We know what happens next.

Then he goes through a period of not being able to ink decent bouts and a period of bad injuries, mostly stay busy fights, but one with a fighter who not bad in Mger Mkrtchian, B- level. Rematch with Veit, easy KO victory.

Then we have the Lacy bout, which was superb. Then a tune up vs. Bika and then the Manfredo bout(this was worthless, a Frank ****** style bout) and now he's fighting one of the best around in Mikkel Kessler.

How is this not solid? It's only because the majority are not recognised by Americans so easily. Again, not 'great', but 'respectible'. Agreed?
Brewer was shot to ****. Starie...come on mate, good domestic level fighter. Dean Francis was a top UK talent who lost his career through injury and a bit of stupidity....but he smashed the **** out of Starie in a way neither Joe or Reid did.

The big problem was a long list of absolute no hopers being shipped over. Pudwell etc. It is not horrendous, there are some decent names, but when he beat the past it Eubank we were all hyped. We knew Eubank was past it, but Calzaghe was still very impressive. He has then faced about 4 fighters worth mentioning....

Woodhall
Reid
Mitchell
Lacy

I will allow Veit at a push. Brewer was DONE. The rest is simply not acceptable, not for a guy of his ability.
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Old 09-14-2007, 09:04 PM   #25
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Default Re: Why is Calzaghe's opposition considered trash?

People can question Joe's resume all they want, but is there any questioning that the guy obviously is a great talent? He has great reflexes, great foot work, great footspeed, great handspeed, he puts his punches together nicely, and can fight on the inside and outside.
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Old 09-14-2007, 09:06 PM   #26
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Default Re: Why is Calzaghe's opposition considered trash?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lefthook31
Lacy was certainly unproven, and considered what he really turned out to be, a one dimensional guy. He was popular because he fought on a major network and was matched against guys he could knockout and look spectacular against. His fight with Sheika should have tipped everyone off to what he really was all along. Leading up to the Calzahge fight, he had faced similar to worse opposition to Joe.
Lacy was not going to get better though. He was holding a title and was highly ranked (Behind only Kessler and Calzaghe, and he is fighting Kessler now right?). He fought him in his prime and there was no other time to fight him. Lacy was calling him out, and if I remember correctly, people were saying that Calzaghe was scared of him (he kept getting injured). There can be no doubt of the timing of that fight.
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Old 09-14-2007, 09:06 PM   #27
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Default Re: Why is Calzaghe's opposition considered trash?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike
Brewer was shot to ****. Starie...come on mate, good domestic level fighter. Dean Francis was a top UK talent who lost his career through injury and a bit of stupidity....but he smashed the **** out of Starie in a way neither Joe or Reid did.

The big problem was a long list of absolute no hopers being shipped over. Pudwell etc. It is not horrendous, there are some decent names, but when he beat the past it Eubank we were all hyped. We knew Eubank was past it, but Calzaghe was still very impressive. He has then faced about 4 fighters worth mentioning....

Woodhall
Reid
Mitchell
Lacy

I will allow Veit at a push. Brewer was DONE. The rest is simply not acceptable, not for a guy of his ability.
Right, and if he fought a guy like Hopkins or Jones the way he fought Brewer at that time, we would have never heard of Joe Calzhage again.
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Old 09-14-2007, 09:06 PM   #28
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Default Re: Why is Calzaghe's opposition considered trash?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklyn1550
People can question Joe's resume all they want, but is there any questioning that the guy obviously is a great talent? He has great reflexes, great foot work, great footspeed, great handspeed, he puts his punches together nicely, and can fight on the inside and outside.
Can anyone question if he's truly great?? NO.
As I said in an earlier long winded post, the only reason IMO he gets any **** is for not coming state side.
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Old 09-14-2007, 09:11 PM   #29
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Default Re: Why is Calzaghe's opposition considered trash?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hughweb
Agreed.
Losing to Jones or Hopkins wouldn't have ended his career. It may have forced him to fight a higher level of opposition to re-establish himself but he would have been back.

We all know who Clinton Woods is these days (not super famous or anything, but a solid champion) and he lost to Jones...badly.
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Old 09-14-2007, 09:13 PM   #30
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Default Re: Why is Calzaghe's opposition considered trash?

Quote:
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Calzaghe wouldn't handle a loss, let alone a brutal loss. He's very mentally fragile.
Proof? Have we seen him breakdown mentally?
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