Why is Calzaghe's opposition considered trash?

[lefthook31]

Originally Posted by kg0208

Lacy was not going to get better though. He was holding a title and was highly ranked (Behind only Kessler and Calzaghe, and he is fighting Kessler now right?). He fought him in his prime and there was no other time to fight him. Lacy was calling him out, and if I remember correctly, people were saying that Calzaghe was scared of him (he kept getting injured). There can be no doubt of the timing of that fight.

Theres many fighters who hold titles because of their promotional ties and rankings. That doesnt mean shit, they still are what they are.

I like Joe Calzahge, and I think he has the skills and the heart to fight the better guys, but in the late 90's and early part of 2000 he had a very big mouth and called out everyone and the fights never happened. If a guy like Hatton can go out and make the bigger fights like he is doing Joe could have certainly done the same, and he didnt, he continued fighting a long list of BS fights. The Lacy and Kessler fights are good starts, and Im sure ****** is thinking Joe doesnt have too much time left, so he is going to look to make the biggest fights for Joe, before he hangs it up, but I think everyone can agree he missed a lot of great opportunities to put his legacy up there with some of the current guys who have achieved "great" status.

[brooklyn1550]

Originally Posted by hughweb

Calzaghe wouldn't handle a loss, let alone a brutal loss. He's very mentally fragile.

And you know this how?

[brooklyn1550]

^^^

I do see similarities Blocky....and I see another similarity

Calzaghe
43-0 (32)

Hatton
43-0 (31)

[kg0208]

Originally Posted by lefthook31

Theres many fighters who hold titles because of their promotional ties and rankings. That doesnt mean shit, they still are what they are.

I like Joe Calzahge, and I think he has the skills and the heart to fight the better guys, but in the late 90's and early part of 2000 he had a very big mouth and called out everyone and the fights never happened. If a guy like Hatton can go out and make the bigger fights like he is doing Joe could have certainly done the same, and he didnt, he continued fighting a long list of BS fights. The Lacy and Kessler fights are good starts, and Im sure ****** is thinking Joe doesnt have too much time left, so he is going to look to make the biggest fights for Joe, before he hangs it up, but I think everyone can agree he missed a lot of great opportunities to put his legacy up there with some of the current guys who have achieved "great" status.

We are not talking about this, you and I. You are talking about things he could have done and the like. I commented on how this fight will tell us alot about Calzaghe just as the Lacy fight did and that it was not an "opportune" time to take the fight, but the right time.

We are talking about the timing of these fights, since you say that he takes fights at the most opportune times. People always say that rankings don't mean shit, but this isn't true. A vast majority of the time a fighter has a belt or a high ranking because he has earned them. There are exceptions, but the statement you said is NOT the rule.

There was not a better a fighter for Calzaghe to fight at SMW than Lacy when he fought Lacy besides Kessler. He is now fighting Kessler. There is no "opportune time" going on here.

[pipe wrenched]

Originally Posted by Blocky

Yo, dude

How can you not see the paralells between Hatton and Calzaghe?

Hatton got a major chance to establish himself as a name with Tszyu
Calzaghe got a major chance to establish himself as a name with Lacy

Hatton took several weaker opposition fights following Tszyu
Calzaghe took a couple of weaker opposition fights following Lacy

Hatton then got his chance at Mayweather/JLC
Calzaghe can have Hopkins/Taylor/Dawson/Woods after he beats Kessler.

They're so fucking similar it isn't funny

The only difference is, there are more "names" in Hatton's division than there are in Calzaghe's

To me Blocky, and I already said it isn't fair, but IMO the reason Ricky doesn't catch as much shit is for coming to the States to show off his talents.

[lefthook31]

Originally Posted by pipe wrenched

Can anyone question if he's truly great?? NO.
As I said in an earlier long winded post, the only reason IMO he gets any crap is for not coming state side.

Thats simply not true. Many here have outlined why. Its not about going stateside, its about avoiding the fights against guys who were dominate champions and considered greats or future greats at the time. Guys like Hopkins and Jones. I remember saying lets just see him fight Echols around the time Echols fought Hopkins. The fight was avoided cancelled, and then finally after Echols was washed up Joe took the fight, and won. Lacy is really the first solid guy he fought at the right time, and Lacy is just a one dimensional banger.

[kg0208]

Originally Posted by FRENZY

Joe does not have immense talent..

C'mon now..

Thats how you feel.....

[brooklyn1550]

Originally Posted by Blocky

Yet he has a lesser KO percentage than Calzaghe - who's apparently a slapper with no power... lol

Good point....I don't think either are P4P punchers. Both wear guys down generally with an accumulation of punishment. However, despite his lower KO percentage (which don't always tell the tale), I think Hatton is the harder puncher P4P.

[pipe wrenched]

Originally Posted by lefthook31

Thats simply not true. Many here have outlined why. Its not about going stateside, its about avoiding the fights against guys who were dominate champions and considered greats or future greats at the time. Guys like Hopkins and Jones. I remember saying lets just see him fight Echols around the time Echols fought Hopkins. The fight was avoided cancelled, and then finally after Echols was washed up Joe took the fight, and won. Lacy is really the first solid guy he fought at the right time, and Lacy is just a one dimensional banger.

O.k. Lefthook, but I did state it as simply an opinion. You make good points. In all honesty I don't know a whole lot about Calzaghe and his career, or most of the names on his resume, but I have the mind set that just because I've never seen them doesn't mean they're no good

[lefthook31]

Originally Posted by kg0208

We are not talking about this, you and I. You are talking about things he could have done and the like. I commented on how this fight will tell us alot about Calzaghe just as the Lacy fight did and that it was not an "opportune" time to take the fight, but the right time.

We are talking about the timing of these fights, since you say that he takes fights at the most opportune times. People always say that rankings don't mean shit, but this isn't true. A vast majority of the time a fighter has a belt or a high ranking because he has earned them. There are exceptions, but the statement you said is NOT the rule.

There was not a better a fighter for Calzaghe to fight at SMW than Lacy when he fought Lacy besides Kessler. He is now fighting Kessler. There is no "opportune time" going on here.

Isnt this thread about why Joe's opposition is considered trash? Well this is why. We can go through Brian Nielsons record, and pick out all these name guys he beat, like Witherspoon, and Holmes, and Orlin Norris, and he beat all of them, but they were picked at just the right time that super Brian could beat them. Lacy was a good fight for Joe, because he was a popular fighter here the states, but he wasnt the king of the super middle division, or the standard for the best. That would have been a different story had Calzahge faced a guy like James Toney, or Roy Jones, or Bernard Hopkins, when the timing was right for those fights, that would have proven a lot about how good Joe really is.

[kg0208]

Originally Posted by hughweb

Jones fought an undefeated Hopkins who was ripping through everybody, Sugarboy Malinga who had scholed Nigel Benn, James Toney who people rated above Whitaker, Virgil Hill, Reggie Johnson, and then became heavyweight champion of the world.

Joe fought Omar Sheika, Richie Woodhall who was light years past his best, Brewer, and Lacy.

I didn't compare their resume so this is a moot point. I compared the way they are viewed.

And Hopkins was not undefeated. Toney was rated behind Whitaker still (P4P #2) and Jones was a title holder, not HW champion.

Besides, you bash Jones when it's convenient to build up Collins.

Your proof about Calzaghe's mental state was very convincing BTW.

[kg0208]

Originally Posted by lefthook31

Isnt this thread about why Joe's opposition is considered trash? Well this is why. We can go through Brian Nielsons record, and pick out all these name guys he beat, like Witherspoon, and Holmes, and Orlin Norris, and he beat all of them, but they were picked at just the right time that super Brian could beat them. Lacy was a good fight for Joe, because he was a popular fighter here the states, but he wasnt the king of the super middle division, or the standard for the best. That would have been a different story had Calzahge faced a guy like James Toney, or Roy Jones, or Bernard Hopkins, when the timing was right for those fights, that would have proven a lot about how good Joe really is.

I am referring to what I commented to you and you responded back to me. Nothing else. There are sub subjects in a thread.

[box03]

Originally Posted by lefthook31

Isnt this thread about why Joe's opposition is considered trash? Well this is why. We can go through Brian Nielsons record, and pick out all these name guys he beat, like Witherspoon, and Holmes, and Orlin Norris, and he beat all of them, but they were picked at just the right time that super Brian could beat them. Lacy was a good fight for Joe, because he was a popular fighter here the states, but he wasnt the king of the super middle division, or the standard for the best. That would have been a different story had Calzahge faced a guy like James Toney, or Roy Jones, or Bernard Hopkins, when the timing was right for those fights, that would have proven a lot about how good Joe really is.

I agree, my feeling is you cant be considered a great fighter until you beat a great fighter and Calazaghe really hasnt.

[kg0208]

Originally Posted by hughweb

Toney was seen as the best boxer in the world after the Barkley fight.

By whom, Ring had him behind Whitaker.

[lefthook31]

Originally Posted by kg0208

I am referring to what I commented to you and you responded back to me. Nothing else.

Well lets just say hes headed in the right direction, but I would have liked to see him fight Jones or Hopkins, those would have been great fights, and would have really established him as a great fighter, had he beaten one of them. Thats why I dislike ******, he is only out for one thing, and thats money. He could give a dam about making the best competitive fights or his fighters legacy, and thats why Hatton got smart and jumped ship.