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Old 09-14-2007, 10:05 PM   #61
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Default Re: Why is Calzaghe's opposition considered trash?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blocky
I'm not going to dispute that Roy walks all over Calzaghe - Roy walks all over ANYONE at 168lbs

But Joe beats Toney at 168 - as unpopular as that's going to make me.

You're under-rating Calzaghe's feetwork, defensive evasiveness, ring generaliship and chin. He's not just fast hands, he's a good outside fighter who would have height on Roy Jones.

He'd take a couple of rounds but Roy is too strong, too quick and too lethal at that particular weight.. He was realistically unbeatable at 168 and that's a fact.

Joe is probably second best at 168 judging opponents, performance and talent.

I think Hopkins beats Joe, though.
Nah...if calzaghe tries to jump on toney like he does and swarms and lets his hands go..toney would play possom not being hurt by any of his punches and toney would counter him with that right hand as he does masterfully..and Calzaghes defense is average and he is open to right hand counters.....period...Calzaghe would only possibly get a points win.
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Old 09-14-2007, 10:06 PM   #62
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Default Re: Why is Calzaghe's opposition considered trash?

Jones is the best H2H fighter ever at 168.

Calzaghe is probably 2nd best (Toney will get a good argument here)

Calzaghe is the greatest SMW of all time.
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Old 09-14-2007, 10:17 PM   #63
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Default Re: Why is Calzaghe's opposition considered trash?

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Originally Posted by Blocky
You forget three things about Joe, mainly because you don't know him that well.

A: Joe doesn't stay in the pocket, if he's in the pocket it's because he's hurting you and consistently hitting you.

B: Joe is not an easy fighter to counter.

C: James Toney has always had issues with faster fighters than he is.

Joe's workrate, ability to evade punches and handspeed would have him out-punching and beating Toney all night.

He's not gonna KO Toney but Toney ain't gonna KO him either.
Joe is easy to counter and he has been countered and put down...Toney would do the same thing.Toney could handle speedy fast fighters that punched in bunches..Calzaghe would not win a boxing match on the outside toney in his prime could move his body in angles to counter you. Calzaghe will get too close and get put on his ass...Calzaghe had his hands full with a past it Eubanks.Toney gets the nod. Calzaghes footwork is nothing near better then the fighters that Toney has been in with. Nor is Calzaghes jab.
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Old 09-14-2007, 10:42 PM   #64
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Default Re: Why is Calzaghe's opposition considered trash?

Toney-Calzaghe is a very interesting matchup. First off, Toney was such a crafty fighter who knew every trick in the book, could stand in one place and make you miss/pay, and he could throw every punch in the book as well. His straight right hand counter could spell trouble for Calzaghe as that is the punch he is most vulnerable to. And Calzaghe would leave himself open for some great Toney counters. Toney would most certainly not be getting stopped by Calzaghe either. However, Calzaghe may just have the style to beat Toney at 168. Calzaghe's workrate, hand speed, and footwork would cause Toney problems. Toney is the greater fighter, the better counter puncher, the craftier fighter, has the better chin, the better jab, and was the better defensive fighter, but I believe Calzaghe has all the tools to win a decision over Toney. Perhaps he would keep Toney off balance with his feints, work his way inside, fire off quick punches, and move right back out. Could he present many of the same problems as Michael Nunn did at middleweight? Yes, and I don't think he would get stopped late either.

Joe Calzaghe by decision is my pick (I know I will take a hit for this)
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Old 09-14-2007, 10:43 PM   #65
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Default Re: Why is Calzaghe's opposition considered trash?

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Originally Posted by hughweb
Calzaghe only has a punchers chance.
No way - Calzaghe a puncher's chance against Toney? Toney's chin is up there with the Haglers and the LaMottas.
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Old 09-14-2007, 10:44 PM   #66
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Default Re: Why is Calzaghe's opposition considered trash?

Nope...Joe would get knocked down...about 2wice at least in this fight and Joe has a tendency to get froggy which would be the reason why he gets put on his ASS by Toney..Toney by UD.
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Old 09-14-2007, 10:50 PM   #67
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Default Re: Why is Calzaghe's opposition considered trash?

His resume isn't bad but also isn't something to be considered top P4P nor "one of the best super middleweights in history" for.
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Old 09-14-2007, 10:54 PM   #68
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Default Re: Why is Calzaghe's opposition considered trash?

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Originally Posted by Scar
His resume isn't bad but also isn't something to be considered top P4P nor "one of the best super middleweights in history" for.
There aren't alot of great SMW though. Jones while being the best H2H, only fought their 12 times.

Calzaghe has more title defenses at the weight class than Jones has fights there. By accumilation, I would bestow him that title, especially if he beats Kessler. Eubank, Lacy, and Kessler is not an ATG resume, but there aren't really any ATG at this weight, besides Jones and Toney.
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Old 09-14-2007, 10:58 PM   #69
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Default Re: Why is Calzaghe's opposition considered trash?

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Originally Posted by Scar
His resume isn't bad but also isn't something to be considered top P4P nor "one of the best super middleweights in history" for.
I'm inclined to agree with the above.
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Old 09-14-2007, 10:59 PM   #70
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Default Re: Why is Calzaghe's opposition considered trash?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hughweb
Calzaghe was an outrageously hard one-punch hitter when he was coming up (pre-hand troubles). Toney's chin isn't proven, Peter said he didn't hit him clean and Toney's neck was wider than his head and he had 50lbs of fat holding him up.

Eubank, probably the best chin we've ever seen in boxing, said Calzaghe stunned him and that's enough for me!
Toney has been down less than Eubank. We have been through this. His chin is proven and you are among the only people alive to have ever said what you just did.
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Old 09-14-2007, 10:59 PM   #71
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Default Re: Why is Calzaghe's opposition considered trash?

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Originally Posted by hughweb
Not proven as one of thee best, then.

Peter says he'd have knocked him out if he hit him clean. He rolled with the rest of the punches in his career.
He didn't roll with the punches Jones hit him with. He got hit flush a ton.
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Old 09-14-2007, 11:01 PM   #72
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Default Re: Why is Calzaghe's opposition considered trash?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hughweb
Calzaghe was an outrageously hard one-punch hitter when he was coming up (pre-hand troubles). Toney's chin isn't proven, Peter said he didn't hit him clean and Toney's neck was wider than his head and he had 50lbs of fat holding him up.

Eubank, probably the best chin we've ever seen in boxing, said Calzaghe stunned him and that's enough for me!



Thats my laugh for the night....And peter hit Toney flush and clean a few times...retard..so did Roy with multiple punches Toney could not and would not get stopped by calzaghe...But Calzaghe would get put on his ass the same way Mitchell put him on his ass but Toney in his prime was a lot faster then you short memoried people think. He had hands speed and good movement and could go all 12 with a prime Roy........................no more comments needed.
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Old 09-14-2007, 11:02 PM   #73
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Default Re: Why is Calzaghe's opposition considered trash?

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Originally Posted by kg0208
There aren't alot of great SMW though. Jones while being the best H2H, only fought their 12 times.

Calzaghe has more title defenses at the weight class than Jones has fights there. By accumilation, I would bestow him that title, especially if he beats Kessler. Eubank, Lacy, and Kessler is not an ATG resume, but there aren't really any ATG at this weight, besides Jones and Toney.
Compare any win Calzaghe has with Jones' win over prime Toney at Super Middleweight.
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Old 09-14-2007, 11:04 PM   #74
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Default Re: Why is Calzaghe's opposition considered trash?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scar
Compare any win Calzaghe has with Jones' win over prime Toney at Super Middleweight.
There are none...this is a given. That's why I said by accumilation.

Remember, Jones best win at MW is better than Hopkins best win there, but Hopkins is considered the better MW cuz of longevity there.
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Old 09-14-2007, 11:04 PM   #75
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Default Re: Why is Calzaghe's opposition considered trash?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hughweb
Calzaghe was an outrageously hard one-punch hitter when he was coming up (pre-hand troubles). Toney's chin isn't proven, Peter said he didn't hit him clean and Toney's neck was wider than his head and he had 50lbs of fat holding him up.

Eubank, probably the best chin we've ever seen in boxing, said Calzaghe stunned him and that's enough for me!
James Toney has been hit by Mike McCallum, Roy Jones Jr, Evander Holyfield, Iran Barkley, Merqui Sosa, Samuel Peter, Hasim Rahman, etc...

He has taken flush shots before and has only been down 3 times in 80 fights. Argubaly, the knockdowns from Peter and Jones were because he was off balance.

Toney's chin is tested to the max and he has one of the best chins ever.

Eubank's chin was great, I'm not denying that, but he doesn't have the best chin ever. It's not quite as good as Chuvalo, LaMotta, Hagler, Toney, McCall, Tua, etc.

Calzaghe didn't hit hard enough to stop James Toney. I'm sorry, but he doesn't and that's the bottom line.
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