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Old 09-11-2009, 09:32 AM   #16
Bill Butcher
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Default Re: Could any of these fighters beaten the '87 version of Hagler

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Originally Posted by quintonjacksonfan View Post
Trinidad,Williams,Pavlik,Oscar,Wright
Assuming they moved up in weight Mosley,Mayweather,Cotto
No, its unlikely, that Hagler was still a force despite what gets said.
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Old 09-11-2009, 10:50 AM   #17
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Default Re: Could any of these fighters beaten the '87 version of Hagler

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I say all of them stop him before the third round. Easily, Hagler isn't fit to lace Pavlik's boots
Oh yeah, i forgot about Pavlik, he would get brutally discombobulated in all seriousness.
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Old 09-11-2009, 10:59 AM   #18
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Default Re: Could any of these fighters beaten the '87 version of Hagler

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Originally Posted by quintonjacksonfan View Post
Trinidad,Williams,Pavlik,Oscar,Wright
Assuming they moved up in weight Mosley,Mayweather,Cotto
Aside from the overwhelming amount of dismissive types that would equate your submission to blasphemy, Hagler WAS vulnerable to mobility later in his career. Paul Williams would stand the best chance, in my opinion, given his mobility, activity rate and size.

It's not out of the question. Had Marv stuck around, Graham, Nunn and Kalambay would have bothered him FAR MORE than a Barkley or a Roldan.
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Old 09-11-2009, 01:46 PM   #19
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Default Re: Could any of these fighters beaten the '87 version of Hagler

Pavlik and Trinidad would do at least as well as Mugabi, though both would get stopped just like he was. Williams has the style to pull out a victory, but I'm not entirely sold on his chin at 160.

The others really don't stand much of a chance, although Winky could make it difficult.
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Old 09-11-2009, 02:29 PM   #20
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Default Re: Could any of these fighters beaten the '87 version of Hagler

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Nar, Oscar would be physically brutalised. Trinidad is a fine fighter, but Hagler's chin would stand up and he'd likely stop his man. Winky, nar, if he would be having trouble, Hagler would change his game and he'd end up winning. Williams, well like rekcutnevets said, we're not too sure of his standing at 160 yet, but the thread does say 'if they moved up', so no, Hagler could roll with shots and make you pay with hard and heavy hooks, Williams is not the sharpest of hitters. Hagler clearly beats all of them.

The Trinidad one would be a hell of a bout while it lasts.
You believe that? I think Hagler destroys Trinidad and relatively early.
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Old 09-11-2009, 02:47 PM   #21
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Default Re: Could any of these fighters beaten the '87 version of Hagler

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Trinidad,Williams,Pavlik,Oscar,Wright
Assuming they moved up in weight Mosley,Mayweather,Cotto
No. None of those guys are on the same level as a middleweight SRL. And I'm not even sure Leonard did actually beat Hagler, even though he nicked the decision. Marvin was a little complacent and a little rusty that night, but he would still have bullied any of those fighters.
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Old 09-11-2009, 04:44 PM   #22
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Default Re: Could any of these fighters beaten the '87 version of Hagler

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You believe that? I think Hagler destroys Trinidad and relatively early.
If Hagler did opt to tear right into him it would definitely work, but yeah i think Trinidad would definitley connect with some trademark powershots to make it somewhat exciting before it ends. And i think that version of Hagler would be coming to fight predominantly. I rate Trinidad very highly in a war, i think his class in such a fight is often inderstated, coming to him to trade is a big problem for almost anyone. But Hagler would prevail because he is special, greater at the weight, and would be able to do what most cannot, ship Tito's heaviest blows.

Within his limitations, i rate Trinidad as top drawer. Of course he never ever learned to cut off the ring, and boxers with the finest lateral movement would always beat him, but those with simply decent or above average boxing and moving skills would be gotten in my personal opinion, at welter and light middle i mean. It would take the top class performers 'to find him out'. One of the most accurate hitters we've seen i'd say, and the best finisher possibly of his time.
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Old 09-11-2009, 04:48 PM   #23
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Default Re: Could any of these fighters beaten the '87 version of Hagler

In a word, NO!!
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Old 09-11-2009, 05:51 PM   #24
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Default Re: Could any of these fighters beaten the '87 version of Hagler

I think De La Hoya would give Hagler a better fight than Trinidad. Certainly the De La Hoya who was just about even with Hopkins until he got stopped. I'd say that version of Hopkins was better than the Hagler who fought Leonard. De La Hoya has better jab than Trinidad, moves a little better, and throws point scoring punches rather than KO ones. While De La Hoya was stopped earlier than Trinidad against Hopkins, he gave him more problems while the fight lasted.

Trinidad would play right into Hagler's hands with his come forward style, static footing, and general willingness to enage. De La Hoya on the otherhand wouldn't. Yes, De La Hoya couldn't pull off a Leonard but he would fare better against a faded Hagler than Trinidad for my money.

As we seen against Leonard in 1987, Hagler needed someone to stand in front of him to look as good as he could have done then. Trinidad gives him that, De La Hoya doesn't for the most part.
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Old 09-11-2009, 06:03 PM   #25
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Default Re: Could any of these fighters beaten the '87 version of Hagler

I agree completely that Hagler-Trinidad is not close, all i said was that there would be some fireworks before bombfire night is over, even if it rains and everyone has to go home early.

De La Hoya in my opinion, would be brutalised by Hagler. It's a styles thing, anything i see Oscar doing is just dealt with, and then some. There is no chance whatsoever that he'd stand up to the shots to body and head that come via furious aggression from this version of Hagler in my opinion. Oscar might do well early, flurrying to win rounds and possibly avoiding some punishment and his chin is too good to be bombed out of there. But sooner or later he definitely gets brutalised in my perception.
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Old 09-11-2009, 06:08 PM   #26
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Default Re: Could any of these fighters beaten the '87 version of Hagler

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I agree completely that Hagler-Trinidad is not close, all i said was that there would be some fireworks before bombfire night is over, even if it rains and everyone has to go home early.

De La Hoya in my opinion, would be brutalised by Hagler. It's a styles thing, anything i see Oscar doing is just dealt with, and then some. There is no chance whatsoever that he'd stand up to the shots to body and head that come via furious aggression from this version of Hagler in my opinion. Oscar might do well early, flurrying to win rounds and possibly avoiding some punishment and his chin is too good to be bombed out of there. But sooner or later he definitely gets brutalised in my perception.
Trinidad gets brutalised earlier IMO. De La Hoya comes in with a more multi dimensional game, quicker hands, and better boxing ability. Hagler wouldn't be cagey like Hopkins was for the first 5-6 rounds against Trinidad - boxing around the perimeter in 2nd gear and countering. And he also punches harder than Hopkins does as well. Trinidad just gives Hagler what he wants.

De La Hoya gets bombed as well, but IMO lasts longer and is more competitive.
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Old 09-11-2009, 06:13 PM   #27
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Default Re: Could any of these fighters beaten the '87 version of Hagler

Yeah i don't disagree Rob, never did.
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Old 09-11-2009, 06:17 PM   #28
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Default Re: Could any of these fighters beaten the '87 version of Hagler

Although it depends on what you deem competetive, even if Oscar wins a round or at the most two, he'd ultimately be kidding himself with any tactics. As much as it potentially is an early night, and likely is, for Tito, excitement is guaranteed for a short period of time at least. Just depends on what you like and rate, as a fan. Some people think Trinidad doesn't land blows at all on the 87 version of Hagler and i can't see that. I said why above.

You're not wrong at all though.
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Old 09-11-2009, 06:55 PM   #29
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Default Re: Could any of these fighters beaten the '87 version of Hagler

Negative.
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Old 09-11-2009, 07:18 PM   #30
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Default Re: Could any of these fighters beaten the '87 version of Hagler

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Originally Posted by quintonjacksonfan View Post
Trinidad,Williams,Pavlik,Oscar,Wright
Assuming they moved up in weight Mosley,Mayweather,Cotto
Haahaaa no,no,no,no,no,no,no and nooooooooo
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