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Old 09-11-2009, 07:23 PM   #31
booradley
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Default Re: Could any of these fighters beaten the '87 version of Hagler

You guys who are hyping Williams are in for a rude awakening on Decmeber 5th. PWilly will not be fighting Andy Kolle, or an old and worn out Winky. Even the '87 version of Haglar would dispose of Williams inside 5 rounds.

I am trying to remember when the 30 hour weigh in rule came up. For most of Marvin's career there was no supermiddleweight division. With same day weigh ins, and no SMW division, Pavlik would have fought at 175. Marvin was under 5' 10" and a natural 160. Pavlik is 6' 3" and walks around at about 180. Fighting at 160 it's not uncommon for him to weigh 170+ come fight time. These guys fought under different rules in different eras. They are AT LEAST a full division apart when they both follow the same rules. People who think Marvin would just blast KP out have to be out of their freaking minds. This one ain't Haglar fighting a smaller guy who moved up. This pits Haglar against a man who is tough as freaking nails, way bigger, way stronger, and hits just as hard if not harder.
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Old 09-11-2009, 07:28 PM   #32
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Default Re: Could any of these fighters beaten the '87 version of Hagler

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Originally Posted by booradley View Post
You guys who are hyping Williams are in for a rude awakening on Decmeber 5th. PWilly will not be fighting Andy Kolle, or an old and worn out Winky. Even the '87 version of Haglar would dispose of Williams inside 5 rounds.

I am trying to remember when the 30 hour weigh in rule came up. For most of Marvin's career there was no supermiddleweight division. With same day weigh ins, and no SMW division, Pavlik would have fought at 175. Marvin was under 5' 10" and a natural 160. Pavlik is 6' 3" and walks around at about 180. Fighting at 160 it's not uncommon for him to weigh 170+ come fight time. These guys fought under different rules in different eras. They are AT LEAST a full division apart when they both follow the same rules. People who think Marvin would just blast KP out have to be out of their freaking minds. This one ain't Haglar fighting a smaller guy who moved up. This pits Haglar against a man who is tough as freaking nails, way bigger, way stronger, and hits just as hard if not harder.
I don't reckon he'd just blast Pavlik out of the fight. I reckon he'd beat him up though, his skillset is of a very high standard, and Pavlik's defence is not great. Pavlik would be looking to push Hagler backwards and slam shots in and administer a beating of his own, methodically. Even if he's bigger, please don't tell me you see that happening.
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Old 09-11-2009, 07:45 PM   #33
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Default Re: Could any of these fighters beaten the '87 version of Hagler

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I don't reckon he'd just blast Pavlik out of the fight. I reckon he'd beat him up though, his skillset is of a very high standard, and Pavlik's defence is not great. Pavlik would be looking to push Hagler backwards and slam shots in and administer a beating of his own, methodically. Even if he's bigger, please don't tell me you see that happening.
The thing I find irritating is very few people acknowledge the fact that if you cut Marvin of in 1981, when he was Pavlik's age, a comparison between the two takes on a whole new look. At age 27 Marvin failed in his only title shot against the rather mediocre Antuefurmo, a guy Pavlik would leave slumped in a corner. He also had two other losses to guys who were far from all time greats.

Pavlik at age 27 is the middleweight champion of the world. When he got his shot, he beat the man who beat a middleweight legend twice. His only loss was to the best LHW in the world; a man who is in fact an atg. I'm not going into that particular traingle except to say there was a hell of a lot more going on than just "styles make fights"

Even in 1987 Haglar would probably win a clear UD over today's Kelly Pavlik, but this ain't no walk down prim rose lane, and chances of a KO are extremely slim. We need to judge Pavlik after his career is over, not when he probably hasn't even peaked.

Last edited by booradley; 09-11-2009 at 10:24 PM.
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Old 09-11-2009, 07:47 PM   #34
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Default Re: Could any of these fighters beaten the '87 version of Hagler

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Trinidad,Williams,Pavlik,Oscar,Wright
Assuming they moved up in weight Mosley,Mayweather,Cotto
No
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Old 09-11-2009, 07:54 PM   #35
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Default Re: Could any of these fighters beaten the '87 version of Hagler

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Originally Posted by booradley View Post
The thing I find irritating is very few people acknowledge the fact that if you cut Marvin of in 1981, when he was Pavlik's age, a comparison between the two takes on a whole new look. At age 27 Marvin had lost his only title shot to the rather mediocre Antuefurmo, a guy Pavlik would leave slumped in a corner. He also had two other losses to guys who were far from all time greats.

Pavlik at age 27 is the middleweight champion of the world. When he got his shot, he beat the man who beat a middleweight legend twice. His only loss was to the best LHW in the world; a man who is in fact an atg. I'm not going into that particular traingle except to say there was a hell of a lot more going on than just "styles make fights"

Even in 1987 Haglar would probably win a clear UD over today's Kelly Pavlik, but this ain't no walk down prim rose lane, and chances of a KO are extremely slim. We need to judge Pavlik after his career is over, not when he probably hasn't even peaked.
It is subjective though, and maybe not completely accurate to compare fighters at respective ages. Different eras meaning different amount of fights, and even if that doesn't aplpy here, you can even just look at different fighters in the same era, the likes of Glen Johnson were doing as good as ever at an advanced age, whereas others are compeltely gone at that age.

It's subjective Booradley, but what might be more accurate is to compare when they have had a similar amount of fights rather than at similar ages.

I'm not disagreeing with what you've said in this post. I'm just giving my opinion on the thread question. Taylor should have finished Pavlik the first time round, I reckon Halger would have definitely in that situation. But maybe that's unfair.
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Old 09-11-2009, 10:35 PM   #36
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Default Re: Could any of these fighters beaten the '87 version of Hagler

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It is subjective though, and maybe not completely accurate to compare fighters at respective ages. Different eras meaning different amount of fights, and even if that doesn't aplpy here, you can even just look at different fighters in the same era, the likes of Glen Johnson were doing as good as ever at an advanced age, whereas others are compeltely gone at that age.

It's subjective Booradley, but what might be more accurate is to compare when they have had a similar amount of fights rather than at similar ages.

I'm not disagreeing with what you've said in this post. I'm just giving my opinion on the thread question. Taylor should have finished Pavlik the first time round, I reckon Halger would have definitely in that situation. But maybe that's unfair.
Marvin was 46-2-1 when he screwed the pooch against Antuefermo. Pavlik was 32-0 when he beat Taylor. In other words, Pavlik beat a stronger champion than Marvin drew with while he had fewer fights than Marvin. Pavlik and Taylor would both beat Minter. Haglar is actually one of my all time favorites. I do not mean to disrepect the guy. I loved watching him fight. I just think a lot of people disrespect and seriously under estimate Pavlik.
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Old 09-12-2009, 06:21 AM   #37
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Default Re: Could any of these fighters beaten the '87 version of Hagler

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Marvin was 46-2-1 when he screwed the pooch against Antuefermo. Pavlik was 32-0 when he beat Taylor. In other words, Pavlik beat a stronger champion than Marvin drew with while he had fewer fights than Marvin. Pavlik and Taylor would both beat Minter. Haglar is actually one of my all time favorites. I do not mean to disrepect the guy. I loved watching him fight. I just think a lot of people disrespect and seriously under estimate Pavlik.
Like i said, i'm not disrespecting Pavlik either. But you've got to understand that this is all subjective, and i'd always pick Hagler over Pavlik in a fight.

But i understand where you're coming from and why you're pissed off with some of the talk.
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Old 09-12-2009, 07:05 AM   #38
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Default Re: Could any of these fighters beaten the '87 version of Hagler

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I am not so quick to dismiss Williams. It is not exactly fair to say he beats the Hagler of '87. That is not my argument. I think it is premature to rule Williams out until he makes an account of himself at 160, that's all.
Hagler would have mauled Pdub, absolutely no question. Hearns was twice the fighter PW is or ever will be, and Hagler broke him in half; he'd do the same here: get inside and destroy.
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Old 09-12-2009, 09:29 AM   #39
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Default Re: Could any of these fighters beaten the '87 version of Hagler

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Hagler would have mauled Pdub, absolutely no question. Hearns was twice the fighter PW is or ever will be, and Hagler broke him in half; he'd do the same here: get inside and destroy.
But then, 87 Hagler wasn't half the fighter he was in 85. Hagler was ripe for an upset by anyone with good movement
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Old 09-14-2009, 11:05 AM   #40
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Default Re: Could any of these fighters beaten the '87 version of Hagler

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Originally Posted by booradley View Post
Marvin was 46-2-1 when he screwed the pooch against Antuefermo. Pavlik was 32-0 when he beat Taylor. In other words, Pavlik beat a stronger champion than Marvin drew with while he had fewer fights than Marvin. Pavlik and Taylor would both beat Minter. Haglar is actually one of my all time favorites. I do not mean to disrepect the guy. I loved watching him fight. I just think a lot of people disrespect and seriously under estimate Pavlik.
I know I do. He has lost ALL of the momentum he had just two years ago. Ridiculous over the weight encounters and lackluster defenses that showcased his penchant for not using angles and eating right hands haven't helped his cause. Given all of that, I can understand why he never seemed anxious, or rather his promoter didn't, to make the bout with Arthur Abraham.

At any rate, Pavlik needs to get busy. You cannot dispute that point. He has a job to do - and he needs to get about doing it.

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Old 09-14-2009, 11:08 AM   #41
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Default Re: Could any of these fighters beaten the '87 version of Hagler

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But then, 87 Hagler wasn't half the fighter he was in 85. Hagler was ripe for an upset by anyone with good movement
Leonard?
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Old 09-14-2009, 11:40 AM   #42
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Default Re: Could any of these fighters beaten the '87 version of Hagler

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Trinidad,Williams,Pavlik,Oscar,Wright
Assuming they moved up in weight Mosley,Mayweather,Cotto
the only ones that had some chance are williams and wright , they are problematic.
pavlik still not enough experienced , and i wonder what he could have done against the pressure of a fighter of hagler's style and abilities.
the rest are simply not legit 160 , at least not at their peak.
trinidad will be schooled against many fighters with naseem richardson at their corner.
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Old 09-14-2009, 11:43 AM   #43
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Default Re: Could any of these fighters beaten the '87 version of Hagler

nope
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Old 09-14-2009, 03:54 PM   #44
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Default Re: Could any of these fighters beaten the '87 version of Hagler

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I say all of them stop him before the third round. Easily, Hagler isn't fit to lace Pavlik's boots
Hagler could take Pavlik now!!!
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Old 09-27-2009, 06:16 PM   #45
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Default Re: Could any of these fighters beaten the '87 version of Hagler

WINKY cud do it
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