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Old 09-10-2009, 09:21 PM   #1
Bummy Davis
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Default TOP 20 Heavyweights NEW LIST

1) Joe Louis best power/combo puncher ever
2)Rocky Marciano fought only in prime, power,stamina,will
3)Muhamad Ali.......... excellent resume, showman, fast hands,feet
4)Jersey Joe Walcott....Sleeper of the division, great boxer/puncher
5)Lennox Lewis........... Great offence and could box well/best big man
6)Jack Dempsey......... Raw power & killer instinct
7)George Foreman........Power,size....raw
Joe Frazier..............Stamina, heart and a great left hook
9)Evander Holyfield.......Heart and fought all..(Tyson Win)
10)Mike Tyson...........Great Puncher..could have ended better
11)Jack Johnson........Master at defense and crafty
12)Jim Jeffires...........Strong, Stamina
12) Sonny Liston.......Strong fighter tarnished by ALI fights
13)Sam Langford.......Power and aggresive savy
14)Larry Holmes........great Jab...missed best fights of his era
15) Ezzard Charles......Great hook off of the right,,punching boxer
16) Harry Wills..........Beat the best black fighters in a strong era
17) Max Baer...........KiLLER Power...undisiplined
1 Max Schmeling.....Smart...boxer with power
19) Jack Sharkey......underated
20) Jerry Quarry......Beat the best of the big slow punchers,Shaver,Lyle,Foster,Spencer,etc.


I know this will change and is open to remarks but rate 20...I had to share the 12 spot to fit 20 and had some trouble trying to fit the 1st 10 but top 20 is not bad
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Old 09-10-2009, 11:15 PM   #2
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Default Re: TOP 20 Heavyweights NEW LIST

I know you're hard on Holmes but #14 is a bit too harsh. Schmeling a bit too low for my liking. Dempsey is too far ahead of Johnson, or vice versa (Johnson too far behind Dempsey). Not bad... #4 is gutsy and your #2 will amount much criticism. Ali at #3 is tough considering his resume, abilities, and accomplishments.
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Old 09-10-2009, 11:24 PM   #3
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Default Re: TOP 20 Heavyweights NEW LIST

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bummy Davis View Post
1) Joe Louis best power/combo puncher ever
2)Rocky Marciano fought only in prime, power,stamina,will
3)Muhamad Ali.......... excellent resume, showman, fast hands,feet
4)Jersey Joe Walcott....Sleeper of the division, great boxer/puncher
5)Lennox Lewis........... Great offence and could box well/best big man
6)Jack Dempsey......... Raw power & killer instinct
7)George Foreman........Power,size....raw
Joe Frazier..............Stamina, heart and a great left hook
9)Evander Holyfield.......Heart and fought all..(Tyson Win)
10)Mike Tyson...........Great Puncher..could have ended better
11)Jack Johnson........Master at defense and crafty
12)Jim Jeffires...........Strong, Stamina
12) Sonny Liston.......Strong fighter tarnished by ALI fights
13)Sam Langford.......Power and aggresive savy
14)Larry Holmes........great Jab...missed best fights of his era
15) Ezzard Charles......Great hook off of the right,,punching boxer
16) Harry Wills..........Beat the best black fighters in a strong era
17) Max Baer...........KiLLER Power...undisiplined
1 Max Schmeling.....Smart...boxer with power
19) Jack Sharkey......underated
20) Jerry Quarry......Beat the best of the big slow punchers,Shaver,Lyle,Foster,Spencer,etc.


I know this will change and is open to remarks but rate 20...I had to share the 12 spot to fit 20 and had some trouble trying to fit the 1st 10 but top 20 is not bad
I know its a subjective sport but you're reaching here.

Quarry instead of Bowe? W. Klitschko? Patterson?
Jersey Joe has no business at the number 4 spot.
Ali at number 3 is a big bold.
Larry Holmes at 14 is no longer a matter of opinion its borderline disrespectful.
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Old 09-10-2009, 11:54 PM   #4
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Default Re: TOP 20 Heavyweights NEW LIST

Honestly, I love the jersey joe pick. even if I think its a bit too high, he generally is rated too low in most fans list today. I think he is top 10-12 material. He certainly could beat any man on that top 10 list. He was well ahead on the cards vs your # 1 and # 2.
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Old 09-11-2009, 12:39 AM   #5
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Default Re: TOP 20 Heavyweights NEW LIST

wow, truly ridiculous list. we all create our own realities in which to live.

happy life.
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:32 AM   #6
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Default Re: TOP 20 Heavyweights NEW LIST

Larry Holmes at 14 is no longer a matter of opinion its borderline disrespectful.

i agree with this and what i am gonna say now is not disrespectful but true. everybody is intitle to his own opinion but somebody putting larry holmes outside a top 10 ain't sain in the head. then we can also make a list and ask a 7 year old kid or a chimpansee to point out the numbers 1 to 20.
second : do you really believe that marciano and jersey joe can beat al those guys come after them on the list ??
same as dempsey. i have great respect for him but do you really see dempsey beating the likes of foreman and liston (who is shamefully low on you're list) ??
btw here is my list
1 ali 7 frazier 13 norton
2 louis 8 tyson 14 marciano
3 holmes 9 dempsey
4 liston 10 baer
5 foreman 11 johnson
6 lewis 12 holyfield
after this it becomes all to close to eachother. by the way i based my ranking not on there resume or something but truely on the fact who will beat who.. in my opnion
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Old 09-11-2009, 04:25 AM   #7
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Default Re: TOP 20 Heavyweights NEW LIST

I could live with that list if you switch Walcott and Holmes. Those are the only two that for me seem a bit out of place...
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Old 09-11-2009, 04:43 AM   #8
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Default Re: TOP 20 Heavyweights NEW LIST

Of all the picks, i have to say, Jerry Quarry at number 20 is probably the most difficult to justify.
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Old 09-11-2009, 07:12 AM   #9
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Default Re: TOP 20 Heavyweights NEW LIST

For my top three I would have Muhammad Ali at number 1. Followed by Joe Louis and Larry Holmes respectively.
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Old 09-11-2009, 08:17 AM   #10
ChrisPontius
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Default Re: TOP 20 Heavyweights NEW LIST

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bummy Davis View Post
1) Joe Louis best power/combo puncher ever
2)Rocky Marciano fought only in prime, power,stamina,will
3)Muhamad Ali.......... excellent resume, showman, fast hands,feet
4)Jersey Joe Walcott....Sleeper of the division, great boxer/puncher
5)Lennox Lewis........... Great offence and could box well/best big man
6)Jack Dempsey......... Raw power & killer instinct
7)George Foreman........Power,size....raw
Joe Frazier..............Stamina, heart and a great left hook
9)Evander Holyfield.......Heart and fought all..(Tyson Win)
10)Mike Tyson...........Great Puncher..could have ended better
11)Jack Johnson........Master at defense and crafty
12)Jim Jeffires...........Strong, Stamina
12) Sonny Liston.......Strong fighter tarnished by ALI fights
13)Sam Langford.......Power and aggresive savy
14)Larry Holmes........great Jab...missed best fights of his era
15) Ezzard Charles......Great hook off of the right,,punching boxer
16) Harry Wills..........Beat the best black fighters in a strong era
17) Max Baer...........KiLLER Power...undisiplined
1 Max Schmeling.....Smart...boxer with power
19) Jack Sharkey......underated
20) Jerry Quarry......Beat the best of the big slow punchers,Shaver,Lyle,Foster,Spencer,etc.


I know this will change and is open to remarks but rate 20...I had to share the 12 spot to fit 20 and had some trouble trying to fit the 1st 10 but top 20 is not bad
Certainly an original list, but i have two questions:

-Ezzard Charles' accomplishments at heavyweight are very similar to Walcott's. Head-to-head they're 2-2. How come Walcott is at #4 and Charles at #15?

-Holmes at #14, i'm sure you have your reasons, and i'll be the first to point at his lacklustre choice of opponents and avoiding of rematches, but his consistency, impressive all-round ability and title reign should put him in the top10, in my opinion.
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Old 09-11-2009, 11:20 AM   #11
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Default Re: TOP 20 Heavyweights NEW LIST

no way is walcott top 10 - here's my list :-

ali, louis, holmes, foreman, tyson (80s), frazier, lewis, johnson, liston, marciano, dempsey, holyfield, tunney, jeffries, bowe, patterson, wills, charles, walcott, langford.
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Old 09-11-2009, 02:00 PM   #12
Bummy Davis
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Default Re: TOP 20 Heavyweights NEW LIST

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius View Post
Certainly an original list, but i have two questions:

-Ezzard Charles' accomplishments at heavyweight are very similar to Walcott's. Head-to-head they're 2-2. How come Walcott is at #4 and Charles at #15?

-Holmes at #14, i'm sure you have your reasons, and i'll be the first to point at his lacklustre choice of opponents and avoiding of rematches, but his consistency, impressive all-round ability and title reign should put him in the top10, in my opinion.
I hate to say it but my rating change from 4 to 20 very often...I know Holmes is low but if I think Johnson and Jeffires are close so I package them. Lately I have been focusing on the old group again and do I put Holmes before that group. Charles is close to Walcott but I just think Joe had a better in and out counter/punching style and had power and craftyness as well, I see him upsetting some of the top guys (as he almost did vs Marciano and Louis) I think he could beat the boxers and the punchers...Joe was erratic but I love his style and think he could be put into any era and cause havok.. I never rated Wills but because I have Dempsey and Langford high I give him the respect...Joe Louis is unmovable to me and I have a personal favorite in Marciano (love his style heart,conditioning,power) and think he is underated..Marciano career was a snapshot of perfection but he only had 6 defences and got out with 3-4 fights left close to prime) I know it would meet with criticisim but WE all have our own personal favorites...Ali was great and he could be number 2 but I feel he gets overated by some and top 3 is top 3. I was watching Quarry fights and was at the Garden for his fights against Foster, Shavers,Lyle and saw him at the collisium vs Joe Alexander...I hear some much worship over Lyle,Shavers,Foster and Quarry dominated them so I gave him some props...Is he top 20...hard to judge but he made my list this time....I have always had trouble with making the list beyond 10 and leaving some out but I think a solution would be to double up some...head to head is hard to do when you are blending era's. In the heavyweight division alone...Training weights and steriods have changed a lot in that division so I try and merge ( example if Lenno Lewis was fighting in the 40's and if he had to train for 15 rds under the conditioning of the time how would he look and if Jim Jeffires was fighting 12 rds instead of 20 would he be training more for a fast start at a furious pace like Louis, Marciano and Ali's era era in the 40.s 50's and 60's.....This is very hard and it is not written in stone....just fun and a mutable opinion that will not mean much anywhere but for us guys at ESB for a day or so....by the way how have you been Chris...
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:04 PM   #13
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Default Re: TOP 20 Heavyweights NEW LIST

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bummy Davis View Post
1) Joe Louis best power/combo puncher ever
2)Rocky Marciano fought only in prime, power,stamina,will
3)Muhamad Ali.......... excellent resume, showman, fast hands,feet
4)Jersey Joe Walcott....Sleeper of the division, great boxer/puncher
5)Lennox Lewis........... Great offence and could box well/best big man
6)Jack Dempsey......... Raw power & killer instinct
7)George Foreman........Power,size....raw
Joe Frazier..............Stamina, heart and a great left hook
9)Evander Holyfield.......Heart and fought all..(Tyson Win)
10)Mike Tyson...........Great Puncher..could have ended better
11)Jack Johnson........Master at defense and crafty
12)Jim Jeffires...........Strong, Stamina
12) Sonny Liston.......Strong fighter tarnished by ALI fights
13)Sam Langford.......Power and aggresive savy
14)Larry Holmes........great Jab...missed best fights of his era
15) Ezzard Charles......Great hook off of the right,,punching boxer
16) Harry Wills..........Beat the best black fighters in a strong era
17) Max Baer...........KiLLER Power...undisiplined
1 Max Schmeling.....Smart...boxer with power
19) Jack Sharkey......underated
20) Jerry Quarry......Beat the best of the big slow punchers,Shaver,Lyle,Foster,Spencer,etc.


I know this will change and is open to remarks but rate 20...I had to share the 12 spot to fit 20 and had some trouble trying to fit the 1st 10 but top 20 is not bad
The difference between Marciano and Holmes, given their records, confuses me.
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:14 PM   #14
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Default Re: TOP 20 Heavyweights NEW LIST

I like Walcott, but #4 is absurdly high. Ali should not be lower than Marciano or Louis. Holmes at 14 is an injustice. Quarry was one of my favorite fighters, but no way does he belong in the top 20. Dempsey has no place in the top 10, or certainly not at #6.
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:20 PM   #15
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Default Re: TOP 20 Heavyweights NEW LIST

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bummy Davis View Post
1) Joe Louis best power/combo puncher ever
2)Rocky Marciano fought only in prime, power,stamina,will
3)Muhamad Ali.......... excellent resume, showman, fast hands,feet
4)Jersey Joe Walcott....Sleeper of the division, great boxer/puncher
5)Lennox Lewis........... Great offence and could box well/best big man
6)Jack Dempsey......... Raw power & killer instinct
7)George Foreman........Power,size....raw
Joe Frazier..............Stamina, heart and a great left hook
9)Evander Holyfield.......Heart and fought all..(Tyson Win)
10)Mike Tyson...........Great Puncher..could have ended better
11)Jack Johnson........Master at defense and crafty
12)Jim Jeffires...........Strong, Stamina
12) Sonny Liston.......Strong fighter tarnished by ALI fights
13)Sam Langford.......Power and aggresive savy
14)Larry Holmes........great Jab...missed best fights of his era
15) Ezzard Charles......Great hook off of the right,,punching boxer
16) Harry Wills..........Beat the best black fighters in a strong era
17) Max Baer...........KiLLER Power...undisiplined
1 Max Schmeling.....Smart...boxer with power
19) Jack Sharkey......underated
20) Jerry Quarry......Beat the best of the big slow punchers,Shaver,Lyle,Foster,Spencer,etc.


I know this will change and is open to remarks but rate 20...I had to share the 12 spot to fit 20 and had some trouble trying to fit the 1st 10 but top 20 is not bad
The most controvertial pick is bound to be Jersey Joe at #4.

Now if all you knew of Walcott was from watching highlight footage of him then you might conclude that you were looking at a top 5 all time heavyweight.

As it is we have to take his losses into account.

You will be aware that I am a big Walcott proponent and have often wondered how his career might have turned out if he had enjoyed the same sort of backing as Joe Louis, but I still couldn't justify a top 5 ranking.
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