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Old 09-15-2007, 12:01 PM   #61
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Default Re: I dont care what anyone says.....James Toney is better and would beat .......

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Originally Posted by Toopretty
NAHHHHH...Calzaghe has nothing on JT...at 168 or anywhere.. You cannot compare how he looked in with Roy to calzaghe..calzaghe is nothing like roy in any aspect of fighting..not even close.....IN ANYTHING.

no he aint, but hes simply better then toney for many reasons, was faster, more of a stand up fighter, toney was depending on his reflex while Joe depend on volume punching and angle, toney wouldnt evade all those punches, sure he could make Joe miss a few in the earlier part of the fight but the mor the fight goes on he would get atgged and a lot to a 12 round decision win for JC
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Old 09-15-2007, 12:03 PM   #62
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Default Re: I dont care what anyone says.....James Toney is better and would beat .......

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Originally Posted by Ambition_Def
Those weren't all leaping left hooks.

Jones knew that he had Toney when he stood up to mimic him. He knew the next thing Toney would do, as he always does, is lean into that left. Thats what makes Toney so hard to hit with the right hand. But see Jones knew he had a small window to catch Toney leaning into his left.

Calzaghe isn't as fast as Jones, but that left hook is STILL faster than anything Sam Peter or any other cruiser/heavy throws.

And to Sam's part he caught Toney after the lean into his left. When Toney leans all the way then he's a sitting duck for a right hand behind the ear. That is where Sam did his damage and didn't need to be fast.

Now if Sam is smart enough to figure that out I have no doubt that Calzaghe can figure it out too. Toney essentially fought alot of guys who had a stock trade 1-2 style. Is it any wonder that Jones, who is a very unorthodox quick fighter :see also Calzaghe, beat the shit out of him?

Not to me.

I'm sick of people thinking that Peter has any sort of ring smarts. Yeah, he landed a few clubbing right hands, but he was by no means 'smart enough' to land it on a consistent basis.
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Old 09-15-2007, 12:04 PM   #63
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Default Re: I dont care what anyone says.....James Toney is better and would beat .......

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Originally Posted by DoumB
no he aint, but hes simply better then toney for many reasons, was faster, more of a stand up fighter, toney was depending on his reflex while Joe depend on volume punching and angle, toney wouldnt evade all those punches, sure he could make Joe miss a few in the earlier part of the fight but the mor the fight goes on he would get atgged and a lot to a 12 round decision win for JC

thats what many said about Jirov, who is bigger and even more of a volume puncher than Calzaghe. The volume punching argument cannot be used here, sorry.
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Old 09-15-2007, 12:04 PM   #64
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Default Re: I dont care what anyone says.....James Toney is better and would beat .......

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Originally Posted by Toopretty
For one thing you are forgetting the whole action and the actual left hook..lol..you are funny though...JT dropped his guard mimicing Roys taunt and JT was off balance and not even hurt in the slighest and almost stayed on his feet after back pedaling like 10 feet without actually falling. ...and to correct you Toney was not even in a defensive posture.....lol..one more key point....IT WAS A LEAPING LEFT HOOK...LAST TIME I CHECKED JOE DID NOT HAVE THAT KIND OF SPEED AND REFLEX AND ATHlETIC ABILITY TO DO THAT. After watching Calzaghe go to war with fighters with no insided game and NO defense and actually square up as he always does and proceeds to throw wide slapping punches..I am sold that JT whoops his ass.
JC step up to the caliber of opposition he fights, something Toney cant do
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Old 09-15-2007, 12:05 PM   #65
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Default Re: I dont care what anyone says.....James Toney is better and would beat .......

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Originally Posted by Piffer

thats what many said about Jirov, who is bigger and even more of a volume puncher than Calzaghe. The volume punching argument cannot be used here, sorry.
sorry jirov and JC aint the same fighter at ALL
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Old 09-15-2007, 12:05 PM   #66
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Default Re: I dont care what anyone says.....James Toney is better and would beat .......

Calzaghe uses feints very well. If you watch him, he is always feinting/moving in and out, making it hard for his opponents to know when he is throwing and from where he is throwing.
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Old 09-15-2007, 12:05 PM   #67
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Default Re: I dont care what anyone says.....James Toney is better and would beat .......

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Originally Posted by Piffer

I'm sick of people thinking that Peter has any sort of ring smarts. Yeah, he landed a few clubbing right hands, but he was by no means 'smart enough' to land it on a consistent basis.
Meh.. You don't wanna give the man an ounce of credit do you? He damn near caught Toney with every right hand he threw as Toney was fully bent into his left. That is smart no matter what you say. Nobody, not Holyfield, Ruiz, Rahman or anyone else had tried that with Toney up until that fight.

Yea Toney was faded but so what. Sam is a big heavyweight who is slow compared to the 168lb guys Toney fought in his prime. So if you ask me, it all evens out.
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Old 09-15-2007, 12:07 PM   #68
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Default Re: I dont care what anyone says.....James Toney is better and would beat .......

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Originally Posted by brooklyn1550
Calzaghe uses feints very well. If you watch him, he is always feinting/moving in and out, making it hard for his opponents to know when he is throwing and from where he is throwing.
yeah I love watching him for that, his faints leaves his oppoeneents confusez and almost eyes closed, I cant remember the fight where he feintd a left and the guy closed his guard and closed his eyes, joe stepped to the right and body punched him hard, that was funny
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Old 09-15-2007, 12:08 PM   #69
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Default Re: I dont care what anyone says.....James Toney is better and would beat .......

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Originally Posted by Piffer

thats what many said about Jirov, who is bigger and even more of a volume puncher than Calzaghe. The volume punching argument cannot be used here, sorry.
Jirov's main focus is on the body, which Toney covers up very well except around his right side. And besides that most of Jirov's work is very straight forward right hands and body shots. Not many Eastern-Euro fighters throw wide punches and Jirov was no exception.

And contrary to the whole Toney argument in this thread, Toney has always been open to wide punches. You just have to be fast enough to land them.
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Old 09-15-2007, 12:08 PM   #70
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Default Re: I dont care what anyone says.....James Toney is better and would beat .......

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Originally Posted by Ambition_Def
Meh.. You don't wanna give the man an ounce of credit do you? He damn near caught Toney with every right hand he threw as Toney was fully bent into his left. That is smart no matter what you say. Nobody, not Holyfield, Ruiz, Rahman or anyone else had tried that with Toney up until that fight.

Yea Toney was faded but so what. Sam is a big heavyweight who is slow compared to the 168lb guys Toney fought in his prime. So if you ask me, it all evens out.
Bull. ****ing. Shit.
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Old 09-15-2007, 12:12 PM   #71
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Default Re: I dont care what anyone says.....James Toney is better and would beat .......

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Originally Posted by Piffer
Bull. ****ing. Shit.
Nice of you to take what I say out of context.

I said anytime Toney leaned all the way into his left a Sam Peter right hand nailed him behind the ear. Just about everytime anyways.

So give him some credit instead of being a hater.
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Old 09-15-2007, 12:12 PM   #72
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Default Re: I dont care what anyone says.....James Toney is better and would beat .......

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Originally Posted by FRENZY
That has more to do with the level of competiton..
Toney would be undefeated too if he took Scary Joe's sorry path..
possible, but that doesnt mean joe couldnt beat him.
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Old 09-15-2007, 12:13 PM   #73
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Default Re: I dont care what anyone says.....James Toney is better and would beat .......

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Originally Posted by Ambition_Def
Jirov's main focus is on the body, which Toney covers up very well except around his right side. And besides that most of Jirov's work is very straight forward right hands and body shots. Not many Eastern-Euro fighters throw wide punches and Jirov was no exception.

And contrary to the whole Toney argument in this thread, Toney has always been open to wide punches. You just have to be fast enough to land them.

Calzaghe doesn't have the power or volume of Jirov. He doesn't have the footwork of Jones. And I don't know what fight you were watching: Jirov threw wide looping punches all night long.
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Old 09-15-2007, 12:20 PM   #74
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Default Re: I dont care what anyone says.....James Toney is better and would beat .......

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Originally Posted by Piffer

Calzaghe doesn't have the power or volume of Jirov. He doesn't have the footwork of Jones. And I don't know what fight you were watching: Jirov threw wide looping punches all night long.
He doesn't need power. He needs speed, which Jirov is nowhere close to Calzaghe in that department. And Jirov most certainly did not focus on wide punches. It's on youtube as we speek check it out. His main attack was a jab and a straight right hand. When they did fall in then Jirov did his stock trade body punching.

And Jirov is pretty far from unorthodox as well.
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Old 09-15-2007, 12:39 PM   #75
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Default Re: I dont care what anyone says.....James Toney is better and would beat .......

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sorry jirov and JC aint the same fighter at ALL
Yeah no shit. You're the one using the volume punching argument.
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