Does WK have an all-time great right hand ?

[lefthook31]

Originally Posted by red cobra

I think, looking ahead...that both Klitschko bros. are going to the Hall..and let some hater explain why they shouldn't. I think Wlad will have the title for as long as he wants, because he's found his groove, so to speak...you gotta admit he's got a pretty damned effective defense and offense..and I don't believe anyone will get to him, with his brother picking off guys like Arreola, who I like and respect more than Haye, BTW.
Arreola would ko Haye, in my opinion, but he'll not make it past Vitali, who'll look good repelling a dangerous guy like Arreola, probably by a tko where he'll mainly bust him up and outlast him. Both Klitschkos are dominant and Hall of Fame bound.

Will be interesting to see how this plays out. Not so sure both are going to the Hall. Vitali doesnt have HOF credentials yet, thats for sure.

[Beeston Brawler]

I don't think Vitali will get into the Hall of Fame either.

He is certainly good enough to do so, in terms of H2H ability, but his resume simply isn't there.

[Mendoza]

Originally Posted by Beeston Brawler

I don't think he uses it often enough, in truth.

I have no axe to grind with him personally, but as a fighter he infuriates me. Someone of his natural ability ought to be knocking out his opponents in the first five rounds without fail.

Then I suppose you don't appreciate the art part of hitting without getting hit? Most of Wlad's opponents back off once the feel his power. Its not all his fault.

Despite not going for early Ko's, Wlad KO% is among the best in history.

[Mendoza]

Originally Posted by Beeston Brawler

I don't think Vitali will get into the Hall of Fame either.

He is certainly good enough to do so, in terms of H2H ability, but his resume simply isn't there.

The hall of fame voting is not soley based on resumes. It is also based on popularity of the fighter, and ring records. In terms of Ring Records, Vitali owns several of them.

If guys like Braddock, Godfrey and Ingo are in, Vitali should be a near lock.

It will be interesting to see how the panel of the boxing hall of fame, which is 90%+ North American based votes.

[Beeston Brawler]

Yes, I do appreciate the art of hitting without getting hit.

However, I find Wlad far too cautious - he ought to fight more like a Lennox Lewis type, respect the opponent of course, but to assert yourself.

Examples.....

Being taken the distance by a very ordinary Ibragimov
Taking 11 to get rid of a gutless Tony Thompson
Taking 7 to stop a shot to shit Rahman - coming off what ought to have been a stoppage loss vs Toney

[he grant]

Credit does have to be given to Wlad for how he has regrouped over the past five years. He is extremely effective in his present style.

[MRBILL]

Originally Posted by Beeston Brawler

I understood the question - I just don't think there is anything about Wlad that could be considered ATG.

Very, very good - certainly. Excellent - perhaps, at times.

ATG - no way.

Horseshit......... Wlad Klit had, repeat, had a few tense moments YEARS ago, but he has since pulled his head out from his ass and has gotten with the program..... Since 2006, Wlad Klit has beaten, hammered or parked every melon-farmer that he has faced...... Wlad Klit has done more than 80% of all the prior champions have ever done with their belt / belts........ Not great? My ass.......


MR.BILL

[SuzieQ49]

Yes he does. Wlads right hand is one of the most perfectly timed punches in heavyweight history. It has power, speed, and most importantly, deadly accuracy. Also back in his offensive prime in the 1990s he had one of the most lethal left hooks Id ever seen. Hope he decides to start using it again. I am so proud of the way Wlad had rebounded his career, he is on the path for greatness!


ps Vitali is NOT a great fighter Mr. Bill

[MRBILL]

Originally Posted by SuzieQ49

Yes he does. Wlads right hand is one of the most perfectly timed punches in heavyweight history. It has power, speed, and most importantly, deadly accuracy. Also back in his offensive prime in the 1990s he had one of the most lethal left hooks Id ever seen. Hope he decides to start using it again. I am so proud of the way Wlad had rebounded his career, he is on the path for greatness!


ps Vitali is NOT a great fighter Mr. Bill

He is on his way to the IBHOF in a few yrs, bro........

MR.BILL

[red cobra]

Well, like it or not,Ring Magazine, but some American fans DO like the hit and not be hit
manner of Wlad Klitschko, and for that matter, any other practioner of the art of boxing. Not everyone is a fan of only "rock-em sock=em" robot styled boxing, or should I say "slugging". This explains the morons who flock to UFC and it's ilk because "boxing is boring" to them. I like a war like Foreman-Lyle, for instance, and the Gatti-Ward, or the Patterson-Johansson trilogys, but my preference is, as weird as it seems, scientific, technical, effective boxing mastery..as practiced by any of the many great examples I've raved on and on so much on this forum about over the past years. So, get ready, unless Wlad loses it suddenly, or somebody gets awfully lucky, then you're gonna see him, and I believe his brother as well (there have been many lass worthy than Vitali enshrined) in the Hall of Fame.

[Brit Sillynanny]

Originally Posted by MRBILL

Horseshit......... Wlad Klit had, repeat, had a few tense moments YEARS ago, but he has since pulled his head out from his ass and has gotten with the program..... Since 2006, Wlad Klit has beaten, hammered or parked every melon-farmer that he has faced...... Wlad Klit has done more than 80% of all the prior champions have ever done with their belt / belts........ Not great? My ass.......


MR.BILL

That is the actually the point. He has only been fighting the same assortment of "melon-farmers" rather than matching up against other like-sized athletes and talented ones to boot. It isn't their fault that boxing has been long out of favor and that all the US large sized athletes are competing against each other elsewhere but it is also an undeniable fact. So, his "improvement" is a bit relative (not to say relative isn't "good" in this instance) and then somewhat subjective from an aggregate viewpoint.

What is most telling is that when Wlad was faced with a big man with a modicum of offensive talent (Corrie Sanders) he looked comparatively less dominant if not far less than elite. When Vitali faced the same fighter he also struggled early and exhibited the same less than elite athleticism when faced with an athlete of size taking the fight to him. Against a past it unmotivated Lennox Lewis he fought well (surprising many/most that night) but still was essentially going to lose unless he discovered a patch that could hold his eye in his head from the damage he was taking.

"Greatness" can be attributed definitively or more definitively in certain eras. I would predict there will be an inevitable abundance of huge heavyweights in the future that will combine "Klitschko" size with SUPERIOR athleticism, speed & quickness, ring aggression, and chin that will place their "greatness" in a slightly (some will say materially) less impressive context. It is who you fight that often determines or proves your greatness. Neither has the comp to truly allow for discerning how much is a (typically) rather obvious size and conditioning advantage and how much is something particularly special about the Klitschkos. Many would support the former rather than the latter as being the most pertinent and relevant attribute in their arsenal if forced to choose.

That said, pretty darn good right hand when thrown by a comparatively huge man in the ring (on a historical basis) is certainly going to be a problem for smaller sized and/or lesser conditioned heavyweights to contend with (in and of itself) or easily match and/or surpass. Size matters - all other things being equal (if that were the case).

[red cobra]

I love the irony when Ring, or any other magazine has an article bemoaning the tragedy of fighters who get brain damaged or don't know when to quit, who succumb to their own macho or valor...and then heap criticism on a guy like Wlad Klitschko for being a "safety first" type fighter and those poor, deprived fans who "get cheated" for not being entertained enough and being denied two guys beating the shit out of each other.

[he grant]

Good point Red !

[The Kurgan]

Originally Posted by Mendoza

The hall of fame voting is not soley based on resumes. It is also based on popularity of the fighter, and ring records. In terms of Ring Records, Vitali owns several of them.

If a ring record doesn't translate into a good resume, what good is it? Lamar Clarke had a record, I think, but no resume. Of course, that's an extreme example, but the principle is still there. That's one of the reasons I think Wlad is greater than Vitali: Wlad may have the spottier record and inferior statistics, but his set of wins are more impressive.

[rm36]

Originally Posted by red cobra

Oh, sorry Chris...the question...YES, Wlad has a very, very good right, and hate him or not, despise his very effective style or not, he has an EXCELLENT right..right up there in Lewis/Louis land though no single shot of his has equalled Marciano's classic Walcott I number, or Max Baer/Ingo type power, but he's more Schmeling-like in it's efficient precision.

But, how many 250 lb. men did Marciano knock out ?