Who hit as hard as Fitzsimmons...

[Boilermaker]

Originally Posted by ChrisPontius

I think he could simply outbox the smaller guys, but since he's very short himself (5'6"), he has to overcome that range gap with powershots, head movement, countering, etc. And since you always have to take a risk when moving in on a bigger guy, you better throw some hard shots while you're there. Think Tyson, Marciano, Tua, Frazier, Galento, etc. All short heavyweights rely on heavy artillery to compensate for their lack in height.

This sounds believable.

You are in the change of style camp?

[GPater11093]

Originally Posted by Unforgiven

Ketchel's "knock down" of Jack Johnson looks like a fake job to me.

Johnson was already on his way down long before that punch lands. It's clear as day, even on that old grainy film.
At best, Ketchel caught him on the way down from a slip.
At worst, it was a fake KD put on a ridiculous telegraphed punch, staged by Johnson to add drama to the fight and value to the film.

Please check the film before attacking this post. You'll see I'm right.

I watched it the other day and i played it afew times and in slow motion

I think Johnson moved his head to slip the punch and his lead leg seems to just slip back and cause him to fall clean over. I cant make out if the punch lands but im sure it was a slip and nothing else

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by GPater11093

I watched it the other day and i played it afew times and in slow motion

I think Johnson moved his head to slip the punch and his lead leg seems to just slip back and cause him to fall clean over. I cant make out if the punch lands but im sure it was a slip and nothing else

#
Some footage shows it clearer than others.Gunboat Smith, Johnson's sparring partner for the fight said "they pulled a fake knockdown", this was stated in an interview given to Peter Heller in his book" In This Corner".

[GPater11093]

my footage was pretty clear

still think it was a slip

[PowerPuncher]

Julian Jackson
Roy Jones
Tommy Hearns
McClellan
Valdez
Nigel Benn
Archie Moore
Ezzard Charles
Langford

They all would have been even more damaging punchers with the smaller gloves and many of these men could have been HW champs if given their shot in the late 1800s

[cross_trainer]

I vote for this guy:

[ChrisPontius]

Originally Posted by Boilermaker

This sounds believable.

You are in the change of style camp?

Well, it's speculative since there is no film of him as a (sub)middleweight, but fighters have to adapt their style to their opponent. Not as a luxury, but as a necessity. Langford had to.

In the amateurs, Hearns relied on speed because a jab scores as much points as a right hand with full body weight behind it. In the pros, it's different and he started using his power more. Lennox Lewis boxed circles around the shorter Tua and Tyson, but fought very agressive fights against big(ger) men like Grant, Klitschko and Golota.

However, as was the case with Hearns, i think Langford becoming more experienced and mature also contributed to his KO ratio going up.

[Unforgiven]

Langford gave interviews and spoke about how he learned to punch, and put his hips in the blows, after a few years of fighting pro.
And I dont think it had anything much to do with body weight.

Not one's given any evidence to suggest he wasn't 160 - 168 when he was hitting like a mule anyway. I've read in more than one report that he weighed that much, so I dont know why it's being assumed he was heavier.

[ThinBlack]

Julian Jackson
Cyclone Hart
Thomas Hearns
John Mugabi.

[Vantage_West]

[Son of Gaul]

Originally Posted by cross_trainer

And weighed between 154 and 168 pounds properly hydrated?

Ketchel and Jackson are the only names that I can come up with...

[HOUDINI]

Fitz power was talked about by old timers as "one of the few fighters who could ko a man with one punch from either fist". Ketchel had super power in his right....his left was not as powerful. Gunboat Smith who was in Johnsons camp for his bout with Ketchel and was at ringside said the knockdown was faked by Johnson. If you watch the fight it does look like JJ was on his way down as the punch was being thrown.