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Old 09-16-2007, 04:43 PM   #16
Maxmomer
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Default Re: Dempsey VS Today's active heavyweights

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Originally Posted by Street Lethal
People have Dempsey tied with and even above Louis in their rankings.

Joe Louis would slaughter Jack Dempsey.
I doubt that. I think in a series of three Dempey would take 2 from Louis.
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Old 09-16-2007, 05:38 PM   #17
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Default Re: Dempsey VS Today's active heavyweights

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Originally Posted by brooklyn1550
Chagaev and Maskaev enter the ring in very good shape...especially Maskaev. He is always in shape and always comes to fight. And all of those you listed still have the stamina to fight 12 rounds. You have to respect all of them - none are disgraces.
In the 30s or 50s they would have been riped apart by the press for coming into the ring in that condition.

It is all verry well saying that they are only a bit fat but what else exactly do they have to do with their time apart from get into shape for their next fight?

A profesional fighter should have the muscle detail showing on his gut. It is the case in the lower weight clases and heavyweights should train to the same standard.
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Old 09-16-2007, 05:38 PM   #18
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Default Re: Dempsey VS Today's active heavyweights

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Originally Posted by Street Lethal
People have Dempsey tied with and even above Louis in their rankings.

Joe Louis would slaughter Jack Dempsey.
Well one of them would have been slaughtered.

That is all that I can guarantee.
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Old 09-16-2007, 05:59 PM   #19
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Default Re: Dempsey VS Today's active heavyweights

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Originally Posted by janitor
Well one of them would have been slaughtered.

That is all that I can guarantee.
I think they'd both look like they were run over by motor scooters again and again for 12 straight hours.
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Old 09-16-2007, 06:36 PM   #20
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Default Re: Dempsey VS Today's active heavyweights

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Originally Posted by tobkhan
They just can´t look like a Tyson or an Ali, it´s not in their genes. A lot of guys of eastern europe have a physique like that. That has nothing to do with shape. And neither Maskaev nor Chagaev ever had problems with going the full 12 rounds.
There is a saying at weigh****chers meetings.

"The only reason why you are ever too fat is because you eat too much".

Rocky Marciano had bad genes for reducing fat. He gave it a good try however.
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Old 09-16-2007, 07:14 PM   #21
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Default Re: Dempsey VS Today's active heavyweights

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Originally Posted by Maxmomer
I think they'd both look like they were run over by motor scooters again and again for 12 straight hours.
I think some of you have an exaggerated opinion of Jack Dempsey.

Scratch that: I know you do.
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Old 09-16-2007, 07:23 PM   #22
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Default Re: Dempsey VS Today's active heavyweights

You dont need to look rip to be a great fighter. Fitz look far from the perfect body type yet he gave Jeff and Sharkey great battles. 2 guys that were rip.
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Old 09-16-2007, 07:42 PM   #23
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Default Re: Dempsey VS Today's active heavyweights

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Originally Posted by Thad Spencer
Yeah. I am very unimpressed with Dempsey's resume. I look at the names and I think, people consider this guy to be a top 3 (or even better) heavyweight?
He beat almost all the best fighters of his era in his prime and even past it, not to mention scored the most first round knockout's in history and was never stopped himself. That's a pretty damn good resume to me. Not to mention the influence he had on the sport. Top three is very reasonable to me.
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Old 09-16-2007, 08:26 PM   #24
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Default Re: Dempsey VS Today's active heavyweights

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Originally Posted by tobkhan
Well, he lacks the opposition of an Ali or Lewis and the reign of an Louis or Holmes to be ranked above them.
You honestly think Lewis should be rated above Dempsey on an ATG list?
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Old 09-16-2007, 08:47 PM   #25
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Default Re: Dempsey VS Today's active heavyweights

I don't know why there is such an obssession with physiques. It's nothing like a reflection on talent. In most cases, a fat guy will lack stamina, but because this isn't always true, criticising a boxer for being overweight is strange. if it doesn't affect their fitness, speed or whatever, there is no problem.

I look at Chagaev, Povetkin, Peter etc., and think that despite being flabby, if they were ripped, not one would be a better fighter.

It's just their natural build and it suits their style of fighting. Weight doesn't go hand in hand with talent, so it baffles me whenever we get threads about todays heavyweights and the first few posts are laced with "THEY'RE ALL FAT *******S!".

It's irrelevant unless weight is detrimental to the boxers skills.
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Old 09-16-2007, 09:12 PM   #26
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Default Re: Dempsey VS Today's active heavyweights

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Originally Posted by Maxmomer
You honestly think Lewis should be rated above Dempsey on an ATG list?
No question whatsoever. Lewis would have crushed Dempsey.
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Old 09-17-2007, 06:34 AM   #27
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Default Re: Dempsey VS Today's active heavyweights

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Originally Posted by janitor
Mate your previous post beutifully illustrates that most of the top 10 today are fat unconditioned slobs. Chagev, Maskaev, Peter and Ibragimov are frankly a disgrace. I walk the street in better shape than these guys enter the ring and I am not a profesional boxer. Wlad is the only fighter in the top 10 that I can respect as a student of boxing history.
How so? Accept the fact that they are naturally bigger as well as talented, instead of wild swingers like Firpo or old skill less farmerboys like Willard.

Sultan was overweight for a grand total of one fight in his entire career. Big deal. Sorry, but it looks like you only see what you want to see. He was in great shape in all his other fights and never showed stamina problems. Just because a guy weighs 220lb doesn't mean he's overweight. These days, people can be around that weight and be naturally filled out.

Peter is simply a wide mother****er. At 244 you could still see his abs. They fight 12 rounds so it's a tactical decision to bulk up a bit to punch harder.

Like other people say, guys like Povetkin, S. Ibragimov, Maskaev, Valuev (special case) and others have body types that will never be ripped like a Harold Johnson. But that doesn't mean they're not in good shape. Looking at Marciano's body, you don't see a single sign of him being a gym addict. In fact, he looks like a person who's never worked out in his life. But like Ibragimov et al, it doesn't mean anything about his fighting shape. I don't want to be a racist, but white people on average have less talent to look muscular.
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Old 09-17-2007, 01:18 PM   #28
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Default Re: Dempsey VS Today's active heavyweights

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Originally Posted by tobkhan
I rank Lewis at #4 and Dempsey at #10.
Are you talking head to head or all things considered?
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Old 09-17-2007, 01:27 PM   #29
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Default Re: Dempsey VS Today's active heavyweights

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Originally Posted by Maxmomer
He beat almost all the best fighters of his era in his prime and even past it, not to mention scored the most first round knockout's in history and was never stopped himself. That's a pretty damn good resume to me. Not to mention the influence he had on the sport. Top three is very reasonable to me.
He did not defeat Tunney or Greb, nor Wills and the other top black fighters of the late teens and twenties, such as Langford, Norfolk, or Godfrey. This weakens his resume.

Young Otto has the most first round knockouts in history. And Dempsey was stopped in one round by Flynn.
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Old 09-17-2007, 01:41 PM   #30
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Default Re: Dempsey VS Today's active heavyweights

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Originally Posted by Maxmomer
You honestly think Lewis should be rated above Dempsey on an ATG list?
Defending your title but 6 times in 7 years, is definately a negative checkmark on a champion's career profile. In addition, failing to face top challengers due to their skin color, weakens a resume even more. Lennox Lewis definately fought better opposition and faced every top fighter of his era, while staying active.
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