Bert Sugar's 100 Greatest Fighters(What Do You Think?) - Page 4

My2Sense · 09-18-2009, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoxingGlove1

Don't you think Pep should be that high?

No.

cotto20 · 09-18-2009, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by My2Sense

No.

Reasons?????

Bummy Davis · 09-18-2009, 10:30 PM

Its just an opinion....even Nat Fleicher and Flash Gordon had an opinion...very hard to rate all those fighters be right.....only God knows who is the best although we all have our own favorites and dislikes......I cant see Dempsey being top 10 Lb for Lb...but thats his opinion..... but who made him an expert....

My2Sense · 09-18-2009, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoxingGlove1

Reasons?????

Because:
1. He arguably wasn't even the #1 in his own weight class.
2. There's a number of other fighters that have had more achievements and better resumes.

cotto20 · 09-18-2009, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by My2Sense

Because:
1. He arguably wasn't even the #1 in his own weight class.
2. There's a number of other fighters that have had more achievements and better resumes.

He was number #1 Featherweight at one point. And his record at one point was 134-1-1, which is pretty breathtaking. And he did defeat the likes of Manuel Ortiz, Snady Saddler, and some of the best contenders of his era.

were would you have him in your list?

MrMarvel · 09-18-2009, 11:51 PM

I don't have time right now to go through the whole list, but there are some real doozies on there.

My2Sense · 09-19-2009, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoxingGlove1

He was number #1 Featherweight at one point.

But arguably not of all time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoxingGlove1

And his record at one point was 134-1-1, which is pretty breathtaking. And he did defeat the likes of Manuel Ortiz, Snady Saddler, and some of the best contenders of his era.

He beat Saddler once in four fights, getting embarrassingly KO'd in one of their other fights and quitting in their other fights. He beat a lot of good contenders, but his overall record against fellow HOFers is mixed: he beat Ortiz and Wright (one of the weaker HOF inductions IMO) but lost to Angott and 3 out of 4 to Saddler.

There are a number of other fighters with credentials at least on par with Pep's, if not better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoxingGlove1

were would you have him in your list?

I don't know exactly, but he'd rate behind Robinson, Armstrong, Greb, Leonard (both of them), Duran, Charles, Ross, Louis, Langford, and Ali at the very least on my list.

mcvey · 09-19-2009, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoxingGlove1

Give me your thougts on this list and what stands out to you as for fighters being to high or low, or fighters that never got included

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Wille Pep
4. Joe Louis
5. Harry Greb
6. Benny Leonard
7. Muhammad Ali
8. Roberto Duran
9. Jack Dempsey
10. Jack Johnson
11. Mickey Walker
12. Tony Canzoneri
13. Gene Tunney
14. Rocky Marciano
15. Joe Gans
16. Sam Langford
17. Julio Cesar Chavez
18. Jimmy Wilde
19. Stanley Ketchel
20 Barney Ross
21, Jimmy McLarnin
22. Archie Moore
23. Marcel Cerdan
24. Ezzard Charles
25. Sugar Ray Leonard
26. Joe Walcott (The original)
27. Jake LaMotta
28. Eder Jofre
29. Emile Griffith
30. Terry McGovern
31. George Foreman
32. Johnny Dundee
33. Jose Napoles
34. Pascual Perez
35. Billy Conn
36. Ruben Olivares
37. Joe Frazier
38. Tommy Loughran
39. Sandy Saddler
40. Kid Chocolate
41. Abe Attell
42. Evander Holyfield
43. George Dixon
44. Maxie Rosenbloom
45. Larry Holmes
46. Ted "Kid" Lewis
47. Marvin Hagler
48. Pernell Whitaker
49. Carlos Zarate
50. Thomas Hearns
51. Battling Nelson
52. Beau Jack
53. Ricardo ;Lopez
54. John L. Sullivan
55. Carlos Monzon
56. Alexis Arguello
57. Carmen Basillio
58. Pete Herman
59. Charley Burley
60. Ike Williams
61. Kid Gavilan
62. Jack Britton
63. Dick Tiger
64. Pancho Villa
65. Panama Al Brown
66. Bob Fitszimmons
67. Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
68. Tiger Flowers
69. James J.Corbett
70. Tony Zale
71. Tommy Ryan
72. Georges Carpentier
73, Sonny Liston
74. "Kid" McCoy
75. Bob Foster
76. Freddie Welsh
77. Joe Jeanette
78. Jim Driscoll
79. Jersey Joe Walcott
80. Peter Jackson
81. Ad Wolgast
82. Jack Dempsey (The Nonpareil)
83. Manuel Ortiz
84. James J. Jeffries
85. Salvador Sanchez
86. Jimmy Barry
87. Carlos Ortiz
88. Roy Jones Jr.
89. Wilfredo Gomez
90. Aaron Pryor
91. Bernard Hopkins
92. Mike Gibbons
93. Jack Delaney
94. Johnny Kilbane
95. Willie Ritchie
96. Wilfredo Benitez
97. Packey McFarland
98. Rocky Graziano
99. Lew Jenkins
100. Mike Tyson

No room for Benny Lynch?

DRMULLEN · 09-19-2009, 05:23 AM

Duran, at 8..bert get it right lbflb Duran, is no 3..Jones, should be in higher, tyson at 100is nutz.

DRMULLEN · 09-19-2009, 05:33 AM

Hey Teddy, Bert has Jofre at 28..

red cobra · 09-19-2009, 08:48 AM

A shit list by a clownish, hat wearing, cigar smoking , anecdote spinning showbiz wannabe "boxing expert" poser. Main reasons for his list's mediocrity are his comically low ratings of Jose Napoles, Carlos Monzon, Carlos Ortiz, Wilfredo Gomez and Wilfred Benitez. He needs another shot of ExLax and a good blowout before he spins out another so called "list" like that again.

gooners!! · 09-19-2009, 08:56 AM

When you have Julio Cesar Chavez at 17, Pernell Whitaker at 48 and no Lennox Lewis you know your list is pretty nonsensical.

cotto20 · 09-19-2009, 09:33 AM

Also i think Billy Conn is to high

Danny · 09-19-2009, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francis75

Burt Sugar is and always has been biased in favour of old time fighters.

I agree but numbers one & two I totally agree with!

Chavez above Leonard?

Argeullo is too low for me!

cotto20 · 09-19-2009, 09:49 AM

How the heck can Michael Spinks not be a top 100 fighter?

09-18-2009, 10:30 PM	#48
Bummy Davis Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: New York Posts: 8,186 vCash: 1000	Re: Bert Sugar's 100 Greatest Fighters(What Do You Think?) Its just an opinion....even Nat Fleicher and Flash Gordon had an opinion...very hard to rate all those fighters be right.....only God knows who is the best although we all have our own favorites and dislikes......I cant see Dempsey being top 10 Lb for Lb...but thats his opinion..... but who made him an expert....
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09-18-2009, 11:51 PM	#51
MrMarvel Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 899 vCash: 1000	Re: Bert Sugar's 100 Greatest Fighters(What Do You Think?) I don't have time right now to go through the whole list, but there are some real doozies on there.
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09-19-2009, 05:23 AM	#54
DRMULLEN Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Car's Ca Posts: 1,421 vCash: 1000	Re: Bert Sugar's 100 Greatest Fighters(What Do You Think?) Duran, at 8..bert get it right lbflb Duran, is no 3..Jones, should be in higher, tyson at 100is nutz.
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09-19-2009, 05:33 AM	#55
DRMULLEN Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Car's Ca Posts: 1,421 vCash: 1000	Re: Bert Sugar's 100 Greatest Fighters(What Do You Think?) Hey Teddy, Bert has Jofre at 28..
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09-19-2009, 08:48 AM	#56
red cobra P4P King East Side VIP Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: The Sea of Tranquility Posts: 22,189 vCash: 1000	Re: Bert Sugar's 100 Greatest Fighters(What Do You Think?) A shit list by a clownish, hat wearing, cigar smoking , anecdote spinning showbiz wannabe "boxing expert" poser. Main reasons for his list's mediocrity are his comically low ratings of Jose Napoles, Carlos Monzon, Carlos Ortiz, Wilfredo Gomez and Wilfred Benitez. He needs another shot of ExLax and a good blowout before he spins out another so called "list" like that again.
Top

09-19-2009, 08:56 AM	#57
gooners!! James 'A-Force' Degale East Side Guru Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: England Posts: 5,476 vCash: 1000	Re: Bert Sugar's 100 Greatest Fighters(What Do You Think?) When you have Julio Cesar Chavez at 17, Pernell Whitaker at 48 and no Lennox Lewis you know your list is pretty nonsensical.
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09-19-2009, 09:33 AM	#58
cotto20 Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 1,927 vCash: 1000	Re: Bert Sugar's 100 Greatest Fighters(What Do You Think?) Also i think Billy Conn is to high
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09-19-2009, 09:49 AM	#60
cotto20 Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 1,927 vCash: 1000	Re: Bert Sugar's 100 Greatest Fighters(What Do You Think?) How the heck can Michael Spinks not be a top 100 fighter?
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