Do You Think Jack Dempsey Is Overrated?

cotto20 · 09-18-2009, 04:13 PM

Alot of people seem to think Dempsey was a amazing ATG. But I have my douts.

He drew the colour line. Didn't fight his number #1 contender who was contender for over 5 years in Harry Willis. Also wound't give Greb, Langford, or Johnson fights.

Made 6 defences of his title which is impresive, but the opponets weren't really that impressive which included the circus act and extremely limeted luis firpo, who nearly knocked him out. the much smaller Carpentier.

Billy Maske and Bill Brennan, who i don't think deserved to be in there with him and had already been defeated by Greb going into that fight.

He also took the title off possibly the worst champion in circus act Jess Willard. And was invovled in weak era of heavyweights.

And never defended the title for 3 YEARS. and comeback and was beaten by tunney twice.

Dempsey was a great fighter, but i don't really see what all the fuse is about.

Discuss

PowerPuncher · 09-18-2009, 04:24 PM

Overrated by those who rate him top5 and pick him to beat more advanced or physically bigger fighters like Foreman, Ali, Tyson. His resume is 1 of the weaker 1s but he was very dominant winning impressive against the contenders he faced, he is 1 of the most exciting champions to watch and a great story and a very likable character

BTW he personally didnt draw the colour line that was part of the politics of his time. He didnt prove himself better than the likes of Wills and didnt build a great resume because of this. If he did beat Prime Wills, Old Jack Johnson, Old Sam Langford and Greb his resume would look far better and the loss to Tunney wouldnt hurt him as much

djanders · 09-18-2009, 04:45 PM

I think he may have been overrated in earlier decades, but not so much today. He belongs on anyone's serious top 10 all-time heavyweights' list...in my opinion, of course.

he grant · 09-18-2009, 04:53 PM

He's a top ten cruiser for sure.

Maxmomer · 09-18-2009, 05:07 PM

He got knocked out by Fireman Jim Flynn for fucks sake. Jesus Christ.

JudgeDredd · 09-18-2009, 05:13 PM

Great fighter, but yeah over-rated.

janitor · 09-18-2009, 06:11 PM

[quote]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoxingGlove1

Alot of people seem to think Dempsey was a amazing ATG. But I have my douts.

To take your points in turn.

Quote:

He drew the colour line. Didn't fight his number #1 contender who was contender for over 5 years in Harry Willis. Also wound't give Greb, Langford, or Johnson fights.

Your criticism is valid when it comes to Wills and Greb.

It is not relevant when it comes to Langford and Johnson. They were so far gone that they were lucky that he didn't fight them.

Quote:

Made 6 defences of his title which is impresive, but the opponets weren't really that impressive which included the circus act and extremely limeted luis firpo, who nearly knocked him out. the much smaller Carpentier.

Billy Maske and Bill Brennan, who i don't think deserved to be in there with him and had already been defeated by Greb going into that fight.

While we can criticise all of these choices of title challengers they were all top fightersof the era, and would probably all have been ranked in the top five if there had been ring magazine rankings.

Quote:

He also took the title off possibly the worst champion in circus act Jess Willard. And was invovled in weak era of heavyweights.

Jess Willard?

A bit of an enigma.

While he was not one of the greatest of all the heavyweight champions he would have been an absolute nighmare for most of them in a fight to the finish.

How many heavyweight champions could have done what Dempsey did to him?

Few to none.

Quote:

And never defended the title for 3 YEARS. and comeback and was beaten by tunney twice.

Verry valid criticism.

Quote:

Dempsey was a great fighter, but i don't really see what all the fuse is about.

Discuss

What is the fuss about?

Dempsey the idea is more than any champion could ever live up to.

He is the ultimate male ego projection.

The baddest thing on two legs since Tyrannosaurus rex.

McGrain · 09-18-2009, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janitor

The baddest thing on two legs since Tyrannosaurus rex.

Like T-Rex would have avoided a 165 pounder.

Come on. Something is wrong with the Dempsey ranking. You know it. I know it.

janitor · 09-18-2009, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McGrain

Like T-Rex would have avoided a 165 pounder.

It went extinct to avoid Harry Greb and alowed a fair margin of error.

That aside, the comment was intended to describe what Dempsey was perceived as more than what he was.

McGrain · 09-18-2009, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janitor

It went extinct to avoid Harry Greb and alowed a fair margin of error.

That aside, the comment was intended to describe what Dempsey was perceived as more than what he was.

Ah! Sorry buddy, i'm shit-faced.

In fact, it's time for bed!

cotto20 · 09-18-2009, 06:41 PM

Dempsey did avoid Greb!

Maxmomer · 09-18-2009, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McGrain

Ah! Sorry buddy, i'm shit-faced.

In fact, it's time for bed!

I just woke up!

Maxmomer · 09-18-2009, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janitor

It went extinct to avoid Harry Greb and alowed a fair margin of error.

Love it.

Rock0052 · 09-18-2009, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoxingGlove1

Alot of people seem to think Dempsey was a amazing ATG. But I have my douts.

He drew the colour line. Didn't fight his number #1 contender who was contender for over 5 years in Harry Willis. Also wound't give Greb, Langford, or Johnson fights.

Made 6 defences of his title which is impresive, but the opponets weren't really that impressive which included the circus act and extremely limeted luis firpo, who nearly knocked him out. the much smaller Carpentier.

Billy Maske and Bill Brennan, who i don't think deserved to be in there with him and had already been defeated by Greb going into that fight.

He also took the title off possibly the worst champion in circus act Jess Willard. And was invovled in weak era of heavyweights.

And never defended the title for 3 YEARS. and comeback and was beaten by tunney twice.

Dempsey was a great fighter, but i don't really see what all the fuse is about.

Discuss

I don't think Jack's really overrated anymore, probably because the generation that overrated him the most has been dying out (not to sound callous about that sort of thing).

Out of curiosity, do you share the same opinion of Jack Johnson being overrated? He also drew the color line once he was champ and had lackluster defenses.

JIm Broughton · 09-18-2009, 07:14 PM

Are we talking legacy or head to head? Legacy wise he may be somewhat overrated but head to head I don't think so. There have been a few champions that didn't have such a good resume as champion but were ATG's nonetheless. I always felt Larry Holmes had a mediocre reign and possibly ducked a few fighters but there's no doubt of his greatness as a boxer. Joe Louis made 25 title defenses but only 2 were against black fighters and very few would question his ability as a fighter which is why I tend to rate fighters on a head to head basis. HTH I feel Dempsey rates rather high. He is one of the old timers that would be trouble for any champion to come after him (At his best of course). If we are to drop Dempsey down a few pegs based on his reign as champion then let's face it, there's a few more ATG's that would have to follow him.

09-18-2009, 04:13 PM	#1
cotto20 Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 1,927 vCash: 1000	Do You Think Jack Dempsey Is Overrated? Alot of people seem to think Dempsey was a amazing ATG. But I have my douts. He drew the colour line. Didn't fight his number #1 contender who was contender for over 5 years in Harry Willis. Also wound't give Greb, Langford, or Johnson fights. Made 6 defences of his title which is impresive, but the opponets weren't really that impressive which included the circus act and extremely limeted luis firpo, who nearly knocked him out. the much smaller Carpentier. Billy Maske and Bill Brennan, who i don't think deserved to be in there with him and had already been defeated by Greb going into that fight. He also took the title off possibly the worst champion in circus act Jess Willard. And was invovled in weak era of heavyweights. And never defended the title for 3 YEARS. and comeback and was beaten by tunney twice. Dempsey was a great fighter, but i don't really see what all the fuse is about. Discuss
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09-18-2009, 04:24 PM	#2
PowerPuncher ESB Junkie East Side VIP Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 30,726 vCash: 1000	Re: Do You Think Jack Dempsey Is Overrated? Overrated by those who rate him top5 and pick him to beat more advanced or physically bigger fighters like Foreman, Ali, Tyson. His resume is 1 of the weaker 1s but he was very dominant winning impressive against the contenders he faced, he is 1 of the most exciting champions to watch and a great story and a very likable character BTW he personally didnt draw the colour line that was part of the politics of his time. He didnt prove himself better than the likes of Wills and didnt build a great resume because of this. If he did beat Prime Wills, Old Jack Johnson, Old Sam Langford and Greb his resume would look far better and the loss to Tunney wouldnt hurt him as much
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09-18-2009, 04:45 PM	#3
djanders Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: United States Posts: 1,308 vCash: 1000	Re: Do You Think Jack Dempsey Is Overrated? I think he may have been overrated in earlier decades, but not so much today. He belongs on anyone's serious top 10 all-time heavyweights' list...in my opinion, of course.
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09-18-2009, 04:53 PM	#4
he grant Historian/Film Maker East Side Guru Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 6,476 vCash: 1000	Re: Do You Think Jack Dempsey Is Overrated? He's a top ten cruiser for sure.
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09-18-2009, 05:07 PM	#5
Maxmomer Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 5,634 vCash: 619	Re: Do You Think Jack Dempsey Is Overrated? He got knocked out by Fireman Jim Flynn for fucks sake. Jesus Christ.
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09-18-2009, 05:13 PM	#6
JudgeDredd Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,449 vCash: 187	Re: Do You Think Jack Dempsey Is Overrated? Great fighter, but yeah over-rated.
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09-18-2009, 06:41 PM	#11
cotto20 Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 1,927 vCash: 1000	Re: Do You Think Jack Dempsey Is Overrated? Dempsey did avoid Greb!
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09-18-2009, 07:14 PM	#15
JIm Broughton Gatekeeper ESB Full Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 387 vCash: 1000	Re: Do You Think Jack Dempsey Is Overrated? Are we talking legacy or head to head? Legacy wise he may be somewhat overrated but head to head I don't think so. There have been a few champions that didn't have such a good resume as champion but were ATG's nonetheless. I always felt Larry Holmes had a mediocre reign and possibly ducked a few fighters but there's no doubt of his greatness as a boxer. Joe Louis made 25 title defenses but only 2 were against black fighters and very few would question his ability as a fighter which is why I tend to rate fighters on a head to head basis. HTH I feel Dempsey rates rather high. He is one of the old timers that would be trouble for any champion to come after him (At his best of course). If we are to drop Dempsey down a few pegs based on his reign as champion then let's face it, there's a few more ATG's that would have to follow him.
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