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Old 09-17-2007, 12:13 AM   #61
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Default Re: HW division better now or in the 90s

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Originally Posted by 2smart4u
The 90s were better but it was possibly better then any other era ! This era is much better then given credit for however !
I agree with this.

The 90s were definitely better than the current era, but it's not the fairest of comparisons for the 90s might well have been the second best era in the division's history.
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Old 09-17-2007, 12:15 AM   #62
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Default Re: HW division better now or in the 90s

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Originally Posted by KobeIsGod
Prime Ray Mercer gave Prime on near Prime Lennox all he could handle. Mercer was a beast and would give any hw fighter a tough fight. Granite chin, great jab, and good power. Unfortunately, his style does not lend itself to long careers.
I agree with all of that and think that his fight with Lennox was the best of Lennox's career. Mercer was just a tiny bit below the best of his era and probably born at the wrong time. Actually, I think that history will judge him more fairly as time goes by. That said, when a guy falling slightly short of ATG status would have had the ability (if transported in a time machine or some such nonsense) to dominate the next era handedly, it causes one to place the strength of the next division into question.
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Old 09-17-2007, 12:17 AM   #63
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Default Re: HW division better now or in the 90s

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Originally Posted by Rumsfeld
I agree with this.

The 90s were definitely better than the current era, but it's not the fairest of comparisons for the 90s might well have been the second best era in the division's history.
I myself believe there is no comparison between the two, I just did this thread to show a few posters on here that Im not the only one that thinks the Heavywieght division is weak nowadays.
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Old 09-17-2007, 12:19 AM   #64
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Default Re: HW division better now or in the 90s

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Originally Posted by box03
I myself believe there is no comparison between the two, I just did this thread to show a few posters on here that Im not the only one that thinks the Heavywieght division is weak nowadays.
Well, I don't think it's quite as bad as many make it out to be, but given the 90s compariosn, yeah...it's weak.
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Old 09-17-2007, 01:36 AM   #65
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Default Re: HW division better now or in the 90s

90's by far, today's division is the weakest it's been since Marciano's era IMO
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Old 09-17-2007, 03:39 AM   #66
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Default Re: HW division better now or in the 90s

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Originally Posted by thesandman
Why are you talking about the 80's? they were shit too, and it took a Tyson to sort out the division. I never said the 80's were any good.




I'm not forgetting Foreman at all. What he did was impressive. BUT - he lost badly to HOly. Got another shot at a blown up LHW - was losing badly, and landed a great punch when the guy got careless.

Awesome achievement, yes.

But a bit lucky, and George got his shot because of promotion, not results.

George then very quickly gave up fighting live bodies after that.



That doesn't make any sense. Forget Foreman.

Maskaev is older now yes? late 30's? Is now a belt holder, and never could be previously.

Maskaev didn't make a comeback against tomato cans to get his shot. He's still considered an active fighter.

Foreman was a one off in the 90's. It was shocking because it was so unexpected.

the very fact that it's NOT so shocking any more, just shows how weak the current generation is. Why do you think so many guys from the 90's are coming back in their mid to late 30's, early 40's?

Because they've suddenly got better - or because there is less competition?



Whatever man. You're the one rambling about some form of anti-Eastern European conspiracy.

You don't have any facts or even logic to back up your arguments.

I don't care what colour or race anyone is in the heavyweight division.

I see a lot of guys that are out of shape, with poor technique, little power, and little determination.

No way in the world a fighter like Tony Thomson would be considered a genuine top 10 fighter in the 90's. No way known. Seems like a nice guy, tries hard, does the right thing - but he would have been a journeyman at best 15 years ago.
Alright , i remember you now. (from the other forum).
I'll respond back to this since you took time to post several of your points on this subject...

In order..

1
I was also talking about the 80's (might as well do) since i get the feeling that you people believe that today's hw division is the worst ever...I was just giving an example.

2
Well yeah , Foreman lost to holyfield but i don't give a shit. The reason why i was talking about Foreman in the first place was to give another example of a + 40 fighter who was fighting against other top fighters. People come here and say "holyfield is even a contender at his age in this division" (or something like that).....Well , i guess history repeats itself doesn't it?.....Same shit , different time. It happened in the 90's too...

3
huh...Sorry but Foreman got to holyfield also because of "results". prior to his fight against holyfield george had something like 22 or 24 wins..5 of em took place in 1990....The point is , a past prime Foreman was able to pull that shit back then.....a past prime Holyfield? ...the guy already lost against the likes of Byrd , Toney & Donald. that was between 2002 and 2004....The point is , no matter "how shitty" this division is , it's not like granpas of boxing are putting on a rampage like foreman used to back in the 90's..but hey , maybe i'll eat my words if he'll ko Ibragimov.
but i'll tell you what , even "if" it actually happens...he sure was struggling to get there unlike Foreman in the so called "superior" era of the 90's....

4
you're asking me to forget Foreman?...I can't...we're talking about a guy who was in his 40's...people come here and talk about Holyfield and Maskaev as if their situation could ONLY be possible in 2007...(because it's too "weak")....So I HAVE to bring Foreman in the conversation...cause granpa foreman was doing even better in the so called "superior" 90's.

5
Yes Maskaev is older now. and YES , he's a belt holder and YES , he NEVER could previously. And ? It just proves that he was inconsistent but still capable. Guess what? That guy was tkoed by Tua in 97.
and where is Tua now?...and where's Maskaev?...Maskaev was also koed in only 2 rounds by Whitaker in 2001...big ****ing deal , ibragimov tkoed Whitaker too...does that mean Iggy > whit > maskaev ?...or that Tua > Maskaev > Rahman > Lennox?...(even though tua lost against lennox and even though lennox won his rematch)...But you get the point....Maskaev being a champ in today's era is not an embarrassing thing nor an indication of the state of today's division....They gave the guy a chance to have a rematch against Rahman...call him an opportunist maybe...but whatever it was , Rahman couldn't beat the old man.
is that really an indication of how "poor" this division is?...
What does that tell about Lennox himself then? remember when he lost to that guy?...
No one's perfect... and again , i'll repeat this...no need to tell me that "rahman who fought against lennox was different or better"....cause Maskaev also beat Rahman in 99.


6
you're talking about all these guys coming back but that's where i'm losing you. You see , the difference is that they're not doing shit...However , Foreman was..and THAT was the big difference...Don't forget his major victory against Moorer in 94....which was just after his fight vs Holyfield and btw (prime holyfield couldn't finish the old man either).


Who's coming back?...
Tua? ...Guess what? he couldn't beat Byrd back then , what's he gonna do now?..you've seen him against lennox right?...too ****ing small..a puncher's chance would save his ass against a guy like wlad...that's it. He's nothing special for today's standards...and the very same guy used to be very feared back in the 90's and was still in his prime when he fought lennox and Byrd....today?...he's not pulling a foreman that's for sure.

Byrd?...
recently defeated by wlad...and you can't even talk about being "past prime" cause he was also defeated by the same guy in 2000.

Rahman?...got ****ed by maskaev again.

Golota? a mental midget... (who btw , had Bowe's number... and THAT was in the 90's...if it wasn't for his bullshit antics , he would've defeated that guy twice) who the **** is golota today?...and how good is that guy prime for prime compared to the upcoming talent povetkin?..

OOhh but golota was part of the "superior 90's era"...

this message is getting too ****ing long...
I wanted to point out some other details about all this but i'm not gonna write a ****ing book here..

I just don't see it though..just tryign to compare and i don't see it.

Prime Bowe? wtf would he do to today's competition? the guy was already struggling against mental midget golota?

Prime Moorer vs today's competition?...i don't see that guy pulling the shit he used to get away with with today's guys...

Prime Morrison? nah....
Prime Mercer?...maybe..
Prime Lennox? yes.....however , technically speaking , wlad's got nothing to envy at this point in his career....

but i think Lennox would beat him cause wlad's chin is too fragile.

Prime for Prime though..(since we're talking about eras..)
for example , in a fight larry holmes vs wlad...i'd still pick wlad.
(& wlad's jab has nothing to be ashamed of when compared to Holmes)..

even though i'm saying all this...i don't even like the guy...(wlad that is)..i don't like him.
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Old 09-17-2007, 04:56 AM   #67
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Default Re: HW division better now or in the 90s

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Originally Posted by McGrain
The division is weak now.

There are no fighters as good as Lewis, Bowe, Hollyfield and even 90's Tyson would probably be undisputed no.1 now. He'd certainly be carrying as many straps as politics would allow.
Spot on.
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Old 09-18-2007, 02:20 PM   #68
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Default Re: HW division better now or in the 90s

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Originally Posted by Holmes' Jab
Spot on.
wlad's jab > holmes' jab.
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Old 09-18-2007, 02:26 PM   #69
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Default Re: HW division better now or in the 90s

90s by FAR.

Hell even the journeymen were better back then.

There isnt a fighter alive right now who could take the 90s versions of Lewis, Holyfield and Bowe.
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Old 09-18-2007, 02:27 PM   #70
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Default Re: HW division better now or in the 90s

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Originally Posted by boxingcar
wlad's jab > holmes' jab.
Thats a joke right?

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Old 09-18-2007, 03:25 PM   #71
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Default Re: HW division better now or in the 90s

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Originally Posted by sues2nd
Thats a joke right?

it isn't. prove me that i'm wrong.
post some videos , compare or something...jab vs jab..
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Old 09-18-2007, 03:27 PM   #72
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Default Re: HW division better now or in the 90s

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Originally Posted by sues2nd
90s by FAR.

Hell even the journeymen were better back then.

There isnt a fighter alive right now who could take the 90s versions of Lewis, Holyfield and Bowe.
Riiight..but mental midget Golota could?
Morrison could?

where's the logic in that?
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Old 09-18-2007, 03:39 PM   #73
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Default Re: HW division better now or in the 90s

The 90's were better. This era is proabbly more competitive, however, the 90's had better fighters. They had at least 4 ATG's throughout.

Asking is this current era or the 19890's is a lot closer. There is a lot of parrallels between these two eras, which one really good fighter (Wlad and Holmes) and then a fair few good contenders.
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Old 09-18-2007, 03:43 PM   #74
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Default Re: HW division better now or in the 90s

the 90's fro sure, there was a plethora of grade A fighers.
2day there isnt even a recognized heavyweight champ of the world.
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