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Old 09-14-2007, 03:43 AM   #1
NickHudson
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Default Bowe-Holyfield III

Revisited Bowe-Holyfield III last night.

Do any of you know the truth re: Evanders health and condition going into the fight? I know there are reports of illness (hepatitis).

On the other hand, Commander got smashed hard to the body early which may have contributed to him running out of steam as much as anything else.

Also, the initial knockdown was a terrific right hand from Bowe, and Evander didnt see it coming, so its really not that surprising he got stopped shortly after.

Just wandering what the consensus is on the forum?

On a related note. For those who believe Bowe deserved to keep his title in Holyfield II (I think a case can be made given Bowes great 12th round when the fight seemed to be in the balance), this means Bowe went his entire career without losing...

Despite the thinness of his resume, any thoughts on upping his ranking?
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Old 09-14-2007, 04:19 AM   #2
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Default Re: Bowe-Holyfield III

I haven't seen this fight in ages Nick, so I'll have to rewatch it on youtube regarding that bodyshot from Bowe you mentioned.

Regarding the hepatitus thing...I don't know. I had hepatitus A once, and you have literally no energy. It's like you're a floppy rag doll. It takes months to make a full recovery.
Personally, I have a hard time believing the story.

Regards Bowe's ranking, I had him a one point winner in the second fight, but even if it means that he went undefeated I don't see why his ranking should be altered as a result.
I personally don't think legacies should hinge on the difference of a hair's breadth.
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Old 09-14-2007, 06:13 AM   #3
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Default Re: Bowe-Holyfield III

Just like in the first fight, Holy got the better of the first round with some smart boxing, firing his jab well and being a mobile target.

But then again he got drawn into a close-quarters brawl for the rest of the fight, which he was not capable of winning...apart from the shocking knockdown that suddenly came along in the 6th! Bowe was seriously buzzed from that left hook, he was up at about...what...7 or so wasn't it?

When people say Holyfield could've finished Bowe if he'd had the energy, unless you see the fight you don't really appreciate how true that was. Bowe was stuck with his back to the ringpost for almost a minute panting while Holyfield struggled to put his punches together, he just couldn't.

After that point, it just wasn't going to be Holy's night. Bowe caught him with a sweet right counter inbetween Holy's shot in the 8th which dropped Holyfield, and that should've been the end of the fight right there.

Cortez always gave fighters a more than adequate chance to carry on but Holyfield didn't respond to his instructions to step forward or raise his gloves, and it was kinda fortunate it just took a couple grazing shots from Bowe to end it rather than something more destructive.
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Old 09-14-2007, 07:04 AM   #4
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Default Re: Bowe-Holyfield III

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickHudson
Revisited Bowe-Holyfield III last night.

Do any of you know the truth re: Evanders health and condition going into the fight? I know there are reports of illness (hepatitis).

On the other hand, Commander got smashed hard to the body early which may have contributed to him running out of steam as much as anything else.

Also, the initial knockdown was a terrific right hand from Bowe, and Evander didnt see it coming, so its really not that surprising he got stopped shortly after.

Just wandering what the consensus is on the forum?

On a related note. For those who believe Bowe deserved to keep his title in Holyfield II (I think a case can be made given Bowes great 12th round when the fight seemed to be in the balance), this means Bowe went his entire career without losing...

Despite the thinness of his resume, any thoughts on upping his ranking?
Holyfield seems to have excuses when he losses. The Morrer, Bowe, and Byrd fights come to mind.

I saw a bit of Holyfield vs Mercer last night. In this fight, he was a real warrior. Evander was down on points and had a dangerous cut in the corer of his eye, yet he came on strong in round nine to floor Mercer and pounded out a close 10 round decisions.



I beleive Bowe beat the best version of Holyfield in the first fight.
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Old 09-14-2007, 10:37 AM   #5
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Default Re: Bowe-Holyfield III

Nick, I think you said it very well. When I saw it live I thought Bowe deserved to retain his title. I also think that when a fight is delayed 20 minutes in the middle of it, it should be a no contest.

I thought Holy was fine in Bowe III, but that he wore himself out throwing nothing but bombs, and Bowe's constant superb work rate for a heavyweight, and the nonstop body attack also wore Evander down. We are talking a 6'5" 240 plus pound guy here, who stopped almost every one of his opponents.

I also think Evander hurt Bowe just before he got ko'd. That actually led to Evander's ko. He was trying to finish Bowe, so he attacked with a series of big bombs and in the middle of it all ran his face right smack dab into a perfectly timed and thrown right hand. Like Foreman likes to say, "Never punch with a puncher." Doing so led to Bowe's knockdown, but it also led to Evander's KO.

That was the first fight where Bowe showed that he could really take punishment and had an underrated rope a dope. Unfortunately, that fight was so brutal, I don't think Riddick was the same after it, and that fight explains his performance against Golota as much as anything. A great fight.

It was actually good for Evander to take a lot of time off after a brutal fight like that, which probably helped him againt Mike, who size and style wise, was a better matchup for Evander than Bowe.
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Old 09-14-2007, 11:15 AM   #6
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Default Re: Bowe-Holyfield III

Was that fight really so brutal for Bowe, though?

He got decked, but that was a single shot. Before then, and after then, it was him laying on most of the leather on Holyfield. Holy couldn't land enough of note on Bowe in the 6th after the KD to make it count.

Wish I had the punchstats handy, tsk...
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Old 09-14-2007, 12:42 PM   #7
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Default Re: Bowe-Holyfield III

Holyfield pretty much always has some kind of ailment or injury that comes up after a loss or poor performance.

This one may be true, however.

He may have been suffering from HGH-itis.
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Old 09-14-2007, 02:38 PM   #8
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Default Re: Bowe-Holyfield III

Quote:
Originally Posted by sitiyzal
There was clearly something wrong with Holyfield. He was exhausted by the 5th despite the fight by neither punishing or fast paced.
Holyfield was taking a hammering up close from the terrific in-fighting of Bowe

Bowe ripped him to the body and with short uppercuts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickHudson
On a related note. For those who believe Bowe deserved to keep his title in Holyfield II (I think a case can be made given Bowes great 12th round when the fight seemed to be in the balance), this means Bowe went his entire career without losing...
I had the rematch even.

It was a very good and close fight.

I wish that idiot didn't fly down though.
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Old 09-14-2007, 09:37 PM   #9
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Default Re: Bowe-Holyfield III

Holyfield was fine. he just couldn't cut the toe to toe action with Bowe. No man could.
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Old 09-14-2007, 10:25 PM   #10
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Default Re: Bowe-Holyfield III

I watched it and didnt think it would be that good, since everone always talks about their first fight, but it was an awesome fight, didnt expect to see Holyfield get ko'd or even see Bowe dropped, i thought it was gonna be a ud for Bowe
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Old 09-14-2007, 10:25 PM   #11
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Default Re: Bowe-Holyfield III

Holyfield was clearly in distress. Who can forget Foreman screaming on HBO "stop the fight, stop the fight". I do believe Holyfield had some kind of disorder. He's got a history for excuses, but I feel he may well have had hepatitis B as later claimed.
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Old 09-14-2007, 10:33 PM   #12
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Default Re: Bowe-Holyfield III

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robot16
I watched it and didnt think it would be that good, since everone always talks about their first fight, but it was an awesome fight, didnt expect to see Holyfield get ko'd or even see Bowe dropped, i thought it was gonna be a ud for Bowe
All three fights were good. Holyfield is technically sounder throughout the rematch. While he does avoid Bowe's jab with more ease, he doesn't quite dominate Bowe as well as himself and Steward expected. Holyfield boxes better, and shows nice movenent. More defensively aware. He learned from the first fight that Bowe was just brilliant inside. Going inside and slugging it out with Bowe was a very sorry mistake during the first fight.

The double jab was Holyfield's main weapon during the rematch.
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Old 09-14-2007, 10:35 PM   #13
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Default Re: Bowe-Holyfield III

It's garbage. If you are really sick, pull out of the fight!
Being injured or sick is not a valid excuse for a loss. Especially if you have a prior knowledge of your condition.
Boxing isn't easy. You can't go into a fight not at your best. Bowe took Holyfield to the brink twice... what on earth would make Evander think that he could win if he was sick?
That's not being brave, that's not being a warrior. That's being stupid. It's also very disrespectful too all those fans who cheer you on. Sure, there is some dissapointment if a fight is cancelled, but going in there handicapped is plain old dumb.
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Old 09-15-2007, 12:30 AM   #14
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Default Re: Bowe-Holyfield III

Quote:
Originally Posted by DamonD
Just like in the first fight, Holy got the better of the first round with some smart boxing, firing his jab well and being a mobile target.

But then again he got drawn into a close-quarters brawl for the rest of the fight, which he was not capable of winning...apart from the shocking knockdown that suddenly came along in the 6th! Bowe was seriously buzzed from that left hook, he was up at about...what...7 or so wasn't it?

When people say Holyfield could've finished Bowe if he'd had the energy, unless you see the fight you don't really appreciate how true that was. Bowe was stuck with his back to the ringpost for almost a minute panting while Holyfield struggled to put his punches together, he just couldn't.

After that point, it just wasn't going to be Holy's night. Bowe caught him with a sweet right counter inbetween Holy's shot in the 8th which dropped Holyfield, and that should've been the end of the fight right there.

Cortez always gave fighters a more than adequate chance to carry on but Holyfield didn't respond to his instructions to step forward or raise his gloves, and it was kinda fortunate it just took a couple grazing shots from Bowe to end it rather than something more destructive.
I was on the seat of my pants when Holyfield dropped and seriously hurt Bowe in the 6th round. Bowe was out on his feet and begging to be hit, but Holyfield was so gassed that he could barely raise his hands. That was frustrating as hell to watch. If Holyfield had the energy, no way Bowe would have made it out of that round! I believe that there was something wrong with Holyfield in that fight; he gassed way too early!
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Old 09-15-2007, 01:44 AM   #15
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Default Re: Bowe-Holyfield III

Well unless you want to accuse HBO of fraud then Holyfield had Hepatitis A in that 3rd Bowe fight - watch HBO's legendary nights on the trilogy it makes it very clear.

It also makes sense watching the fight that there was something wrong with Holyfield. He had never gassed that early in a fight. He was basically done after the first 3 rounds. Yeah he knocked Bowe down but he didn't have any energy to put some punches together and finish him off.

Again, up until Bowe III, when did Holfyield show ANY kind of stamina problems in a fight. Only in the first Moorer fight and that was a close fight (that I had Moorer eeking out by a point). In Holyfield's prime (89-93) Holyfield had a great workrate and had no problem going 12 hard rounds.

Something was wrong with him that night against Bowe. Now I would say he was an IDIOT for going through with the fight. To me it was by far the dumbest thing Holyfield has done in his whole career. He should have delayed the fight for a couple of months. His foolish mistake and it cost him.

Regarding Bowe II -
Close fight but I thought Holyfield won it. He won more of the clear rounds. Here are my scores round by round

Holyfield clearly won rounds 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, and 11
Bowe clearly won rounds 1, 3, 9, and 12

So 6 clear rounds for Holyfield and 4 clear rounds for Bowe. I challenge anyone to dispute this fact.

Rounds 2 and 4 are the tougher rounds to score.
I gave round 2 to Bowe slightly because he was busier.
I gave round 4 to Holyfield because he landed the more telling blows and closed the round strongly. Both had their moments in round 4 but Holyfield was more dominant in winning round 4.

So I scored fight 2 - 115-113 for Holyfield - 7 rounds to 5 for Holyfield
You'd have to give Bowe round 4 to get him a draw and I don't see it. To me that was a Holyfield round clearly but it was closer than some of the other rounds.

So all in all a close but clear win for Holyfield in fight 2. Also have to remember that Holyfield had a pretty dominant rounds 5, 6, 10, and 11. In round 11 Holyfield knocked Bowe's mouthpiece out and had him in some trouble. In rounds 5 and 6 Holyfield whacked Bowe around pretty good. On the other hand even the rounds Bowe won he didn't hurt Evander significantly in any particular round. I'd say round 9 was Bowe's best round, but even in that round Evander landed some good shots.

Overall fight 2 was just Evander's night - he threw the crisper punches and he controlled the fight with his footwork and choosing when to box and when to slug. Bowe on the other hand was not as crisp and sharp, and seemed befuddled by Holyfield not just barrelling in and trying to outslug him (like fight 1).

For the record I scored their first fight 115-112 for Bowe. In the first fight Boew clearly had the most dominant moments, of course coming in the first half of round 10 and the knockdown in round 11.

Here's my scorecard for Bowe/Holyfield I
Holyfield clearly wins rounds 1, 2, 5, and 8
Bowe wins rounds 3, 4, 7, 9, 10, and 11 (a 10-8 round with the knockdown)
So Holy clearly wins 4 rounds and Bowe clearly wins 6 rounds
I scored the 6th round and the 12th round even - too close to call
So Bowe wins the first fight 115-112

But a great trilogy

Too bad we didn't get a Bowe/Lewis trilogy, and a a Holyfield Tyson fight from 89-91. And a Bowe/Tyson fight somewhere along the way. Damn the 90s could have been so much better than they were. It was a good/very good era but it could have been great. So frustrating.

Just have to cherish the first 2 Bowe/Holyfield fights I guess since they were the only clashes we got prime for prime amongst the big 4 (Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe, and Lewis).
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