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Old 09-22-2009, 08:35 PM   #46
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Default Re: Does Mayweather Deserve More Credit? (READ)

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I don't deny that Mayweather was the bigger man, but i think it should not be forgotten that it was a ****ing whitewash, in that he basically dominated every second of every single round. I mean, Hagler had a close fight with Duran when having a way bigger size advantage. Of course Duran was greater than Marquez, but fact remains that the way in which Floyd won (after a 2 year lay off) is impressive as hell.

Yes it was, but do you think it would have been a whitewash just the same had Juan been in the same physical condition he was for the Casamayor and Diaz fights? I sure don`t think so, Juan would have still lost I`m sure but at least he would have acquitted himself much better and gave Floyd something to think about.

But once that first bell rang it became evident that all the added weight had slowed him down considerably and he wasn`t going to offer much resistance or much of a challenge. His punches seemed like they were thrown underwater and his timing wasn`t the same either, in a nutshell Floyd became lightweight champion while fighting as a welter against an aging champion too far above his optimum weight class to be effective in any way.

As far as I am concerned the JMM fight hasn`t added anything to Floyd`s legacy, if anything it should be a black mark against him as he could have gotten him out of there as soon as the second round had he gone for broke and really went after JMM with some gusto and thrown caution to the wind. But no instead he fought a boring tactical fight and let JMM off the hook and just coasted to victory against a much smaller challenger, hardly the stuff legends are made of imo.
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Old 09-22-2009, 08:42 PM   #47
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Default Re: Does Mayweather Deserve More Credit? (READ)

All things considered and just as a general observation i actually don't think Marquez was ever a good enough fighter even at his very best to avoid being very comfortably beaten by an excellent safety-first fighter\pure boxer.

It's always been the toughest style for him.I wonder if a prime feather MArquez could even beat someone like Calvin Grove, who will never be remembered on the same level as him overall.
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Old 09-22-2009, 08:48 PM   #48
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Default Re: Does Mayweather Deserve More Credit? (READ)

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Yes it was, but do you think it would have been a whitewash just the same had Juan been in the same physical condition he was for the Casamayor and Diaz fights? I sure don`t think so, Juan would have still lost I`m sure but at least he would have acquitted himself much better and gave Floyd something to think about.

But once that first bell rang it became evident that all the added weight had slowed him down considerably and he wasn`t going to offer much resistance or much of a challenge. His punches seemed like they were thrown underwater and his timing wasn`t the same either, in a nutshell Floyd became lightweight champion while fighting as a welter against an aging champion too far above his optimum weight class to be effective in any way.

As far as I am concerned the JMM fight hasn`t added anything to Floyd`s legacy, if anything it should be a black mark against him as he could have gotten him out of there as soon as the second round had he gone for broke and really went after JMM with some gusto and thrown caution to the wind. But no instead he fought a boring tactical fight and let JMM off the hook and just coasted to victory against a much smaller challenger, hardly the stuff legends are made of imo.
How about Marquez wasnt slower than he was 6months ago but Mayweather was just that much faster and better defensively?
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Old 09-22-2009, 09:28 PM   #49
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How about Marquez wasnt slower than he was 6months ago but Ma€yweather was just that much faster and better defensively?
Nope, JMM was clearly slower of both hand and foot and his timing was off by quite a bit, Floyd`s speed and defence just made it that much more of a one-sided fight in his favour.
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Old 09-23-2009, 08:34 AM   #50
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Default Re: Does Mayweather Deserve More Credit? (READ)

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Yes it was, but do you think it would have been a whitewash just the same had Juan been in the same physical condition he was for the Casamayor and Diaz fights? I sure don`t think so, Juan would have still lost I`m sure but at least he would have acquitted himself much better and gave Floyd something to think about.

But once that first bell rang it became evident that all the added weight had slowed him down considerably and he wasn`t going to offer much resistance or much of a challenge. His punches seemed like they were thrown underwater and his timing wasn`t the same either, in a nutshell Floyd became lightweight champion while fighting as a welter against an aging champion too far above his optimum weight class to be effective in any way.
I thought Marquez looked as good as he possibly could, considering the weight he was fighting at. I was actually quite surprised by Marquez's handspeed. It wasn't exactly way behind his speed at lightweight against Casamayor and Diaz. He would have looked far better had he not been in with Mayweather. Marquez missed all night mainly based on Mayweather making him miss, rather than his timing being off. Maybe a bit of both but a far stronger emphasis on what Mayweather was doing, IMO.
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Old 09-23-2009, 09:13 AM   #51
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I agree. Mayweather really needs to step it up. Hes really that good that he can make the #2 guy look that bad. I just personally dont think he will do it. I think he would fight Pac over any other fighter, because he knows its the easiest fight for him. Thats the fight he ultimately wants. Its the safest and makes the most money. I just dont see Pac getting past Cotto.
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Old 09-23-2009, 09:20 AM   #52
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I agree. Mayweather really needs to step it up. Hes really that good that he can make the #2 guy look that bad. I just personally dont think he will do it. I think he would fight Pac over any other fighter, because he knows its the easiest fight for him. Thats the fight he ultimately wants. Its the safest and makes the most money. I just dont see Pac getting past Cotto.
this x2
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Old 09-23-2009, 09:44 AM   #53
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I think Mosley might well be more of a concern for Mayweather than Pacquaio.

A quick one on Mayweather. His jab isn't that good. Not much behind it at all. It's certainly no Whitaker like in terms of quality.
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Old 09-23-2009, 09:47 AM   #54
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I think Mosley might well be more of a concern for Mayweather than Pacquaio.

A quick one on Mayweather. His jab isn't that good. Not much behind it at all. It's certainly no Whitaker like in terms of quality.
Like Floyd, Mosley shoots a great jab to the pit of the stomach. Mosley has good handspeed, chin, power in both fists, very strong..............Floyd wonn't go anywhere near him basically
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Old 09-23-2009, 12:13 PM   #55
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No one knew going in thta Ross was nearing the end. Ross was on a 20 fight wins streak and coming off 2 stoppage wins, hardly past his prime.
Everyone knew he was past his prime. They may not've known that he would retire directly after that fight, but he was clearly on the downslide by that point. His record has absolutely nothing to do with the stage of his career he was at. Joe Louis had defeated a string of contenders in impressive fashion prior to being trounced by Marciano. Benny Leonard had won some 20 straight fights since his comeback before being flattened by McLarnin, and you yourself have claimed that Leonard was a shot fighter by that point. He was still an excellent fighter, no doubt, but he was clearly past his prime.


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Mayweather was in his prime at 130. Marquez wasnt that much past his best, as most thought he was robbed against Pac man only a year early and he was coming off two stoppage wins against two world class fighters who hadnt been stoped before.
He was 36 years old, fighting at a weight he was completely unsuited for against a much larger fighter. It's clear to anyone who's watched the man fight that Marquez's best days were at Featherweight and early on at 130. He's been on the decline for the past few years. The Diaz and Casamayor fights were big for his publicity, but they didn't prove anything in terms of the stage of his career he was in. Casa was pretty much shot, and Diaz was an overrated workhorse who couldn't cut it at the elite level. The Pacquiao fight was a year and half ago at 130 pounds. It's hardly relevant at all now considering the wars he took place in since then and the addded weight he had to put on for this bout, weight which clearly affected him against an opponent who outmatched him in every way in the first place.


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Now both fights are similar, just that you dont want to give mayweather no credit.
Neither are similar in the slightest, you're just the king of simpletons. It boggles my mind how you can be so thick, really. Have you ever done an IQ test? For the sake of your self-esteem, give it a pass.
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Old 09-23-2009, 12:19 PM   #56
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I don't really understand how that would figure into anything here.
I can assure you neither does he.
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Old 09-23-2009, 12:26 PM   #57
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I think Mosley might well be more of a concern for Mayweather than Pacquaio.

A quick one on Mayweather. His jab isn't that good. Not much behind it at all. It's certainly no Whitaker like in terms of quality.
I think you may be right as far as the risk factor, but one thing to consider is that Mosley has fought two technically very good fighters and he was shut out completely. Both Wright and Forrest were well rounded boxers, bigger, a bit stronger, but technically very good, and not as good as Floyd. Mosley is strong as hell for a little guy, but hes also very inconsistent. He doesnt seem to maintain anything very well, and we always seem to see a different version of him in fights. Floyd is technically very good has an excellent chin, and is just as good fighting at range as Vernon Forrest was, only with a better variety of punches. Maybe not as strong of a jab as Vernon, but I think he would use it more in a fight like this, just as he did against Judah.
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Old 09-23-2009, 12:34 PM   #58
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Default Re: Does Mayweather Deserve More Credit? (READ)

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People seem to say his win over Marquez means nothing due to Marquez stepping up 2 weight classess.

But shound't he be given more credit. Because some fighters have stepped up more than 2 weight divisions and beat the number #1.

Henry Armstrong jumped from Featherweight to Welterweight, and defeated number #1 Welterweight Barney Ross. Amstrong jumped up a amazing 4 weight divisions and beat Ross Up.

So as I've proven, little men can jump and beat bigger men, so maybe Mayweather should be given a little more credit. As he didnt let a man move up and defeat him.
He deserves credit for the WAY in which he handled Marquez... few expected Marquez to take Mayweather`s 0... but just as few expected Mayweather to win 12 rds to 0 vs a man who has never been decisevely beaten in over 50 fights.

I personally envisioned Mayweather being given a MUCH tougher fight, he looked sharp as **** on saturday & lets not forget that he outslicked, outsped & completely outboxed JMM, he never leaned his weight on him for the entire fight & overpowered him... the fight proved beyond doubt to me that Mayweather was just on a different level talent wise & something very similar would have occured had both men been the same size naturally.
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Old 09-23-2009, 12:39 PM   #59
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I think you may be right as far as the risk factor, but one thing to consider is that Mosley has fought two technically very good fighters and he was shut out completely. Both Wright and Forrest were well rounded boxers, bigger, a bit stronger, but technically very good, and not as good as Floyd. Mosley is strong as hell for a little guy, but hes also very inconsistent. He doesnt seem to maintain anything very well, and we always seem to see a different version of him in fights. Floyd is technically very good has an excellent chin, and is just as good fighting at range as Vernon Forrest was, only with a better variety of punches. Maybe not as strong of a jab as Vernon, but I think he would use it more in a fight like this, just as he did against Judah.
also taller than Shane. Floyd ain't that much bigger than Shane. Winky was at 154 too.
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Old 09-23-2009, 12:44 PM   #60
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i gave Floyd huge credit for it i expected Marquez to give him some trouble but no he shut him out and dominated him spectacularry

im giving him credit for the win
Me too, its hard not to give him credit for the win, it was masterful, end of.
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