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Old 09-27-2009, 09:22 PM   #31
TBooze
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Default Re: Clay vs Cooper 1963 - The between rds contraversy.

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
Not to anyone, whos sole source of information is Sir Henry Cooper

I thought you reckoned the footage was edited and it was longer than 5seconds anyway

The film of the fight is edited, but as stated the live radio feed the BBC ran a few years back was not, and showed Ali (Clay) got about an extra ten seconds.
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Old 09-27-2009, 09:50 PM   #32
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Default Re: Clay vs Cooper 1963 - The between rds contraversy.

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Originally Posted by Bill Butcher View Post
True, why Dundee (& Ali himself) insist on saying it was longer is beyond me, it makes Henry look better & Ali worse, you`d think they would have made it their point to let everyone know the actual time.
The reason Dundee lies and makes a big thing of it is to simply make himself look great and oh so important.

By exaggerating he makes out his wiles saved Ali's ass and what would Ali have ever done without such a great great trainer yada, yada.

It's just a case of someone blowing their own trumpet, and lying in order to do so i guess.
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Old 09-28-2009, 04:41 AM   #33
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Default Re: Clay vs Cooper 1963 - The between rds contraversy.

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
I thought you reckoned the footage was edited and it was longer than 5seconds anyway

It was about 10 seconds, like TBooze has confirmed. He's a far more reliable source than Bill Butcher.
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Old 09-28-2009, 06:57 AM   #34
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Default Re: Clay vs Cooper 1963 - The between rds contraversy.

Guys,

I urge you to watch the ESPN classic marathons of the young Clay / Ali. In this program, you will see Dundee interview about the glove incident in the airport right after the fight. He said he sent someone back to the dressing room to look for a new glove, but none could be found, so they used the glove they had. It took a few minutes, not five seconds.
The Key point is Dundee could not spin or exaggerate something like this directly after the fight.

Dundee also used smelling salts to wake Ali. Up. Ali was out of it, and the smelling salts made him come to between rounds. You can see it on film. Ali's head jerks up and his eyes look like pin balls. Smelling salts of course are illegal in British boxing.

Abover and beyond this, Dundee jumps into the ring to escort a woozy Ali into hsi corner. This might be a rule violation, and it is one that has cost fighters DQ's in the past.

To say that Dundee broke the rules to aid Ali is a 110% correct. The fight could be ruled DQ loss for Ali. What we will never know for sure is how much the smelling salts, and the extra time aided Ali in recovery.
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Old 09-28-2009, 08:11 AM   #35
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Default Re: Clay vs Cooper 1963 - The between rds contraversy.

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Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh View Post
It was about 10 seconds, like TBooze has confirmed. He's a far more reliable source than Bill Butcher.
Time it yourself, I wont expect you you tell me Im right but at least you will know yourself.
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Old 09-28-2009, 08:15 AM   #36
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Default Re: Clay vs Cooper 1963 - The between rds contraversy.

Harry Carpenter did a whole program on this incident thre years ago .
First. Dundee sent NO ONE back to the dressing room to look for gloves.
A B B B OC Official asked Nipper read to get another pair ,the gloves were not replaced.
Second .The BBC timed the extra time caused by the delay ,it was precisely 10 seconds ,as Carpenter confirmed on the programme.
Thirdly,Ali was up before the count of 3 and starting to walk to his corner,when Dundee grabbed him the bell had allready rung
You are talking your usual bollocks ,instead of the facts.
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Old 09-28-2009, 08:18 AM   #37
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Default Re: Clay vs Cooper 1963 - The between rds contraversy.

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I had it a draw, and Barrera getting the decision was no more controversial than giving their first effort to Morales. MAB closed the better in the second fight, so it's not all that surprising he was given the verdict - especially when Morales face look like it had been hit by a truck, and he hadn't landed to many clean shots himself. It's just a shame it wasn't the war we all wanted it to be, the night had an aura about it like something special was about unfold. Fell short. I bet even as a Morales fan you don't even go back to this one all that often. Be honest, Bill.
Morales has had more exciting war type fights no doubt but I thought it was interesting to see these 2 perform in such a technical way after the explosive nature of their 1st fight... it really showed just how good & complete these 2 were in their primes, the clear-cut top 2 in the division.
My friends expected a re-run of fight 1 but I kept telling them Im 99% certain it wont be near as good, I had a feeling that both would be reluctant to put themselves thru that again & it would only happen if 1 had the nerve to attack outright, obviously the other would respond.

Ps. a draw ? Really ?

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Old 09-28-2009, 08:22 AM   #38
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Default Re: Clay vs Cooper 1963 - The between rds contraversy.

It is true. Ali got 5 or 6 seconds and no Ali wasn't going to get ko'd. Yes, he was hurt but he would have tied him up, moved and took whatever followed. Ali don't get ko'd!
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Old 09-28-2009, 08:23 AM   #39
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Default Re: Clay vs Cooper 1963 - The between rds contraversy.

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Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
Harry Carpenter did a whole program on this incident thre years ago .
First. Dundee sent NO ONE back to the dressing room to look for gloves.
A B B B OC Official asked Nipper read to get another pair ,the gloves were not replaced.
Second .The BBC timed the extra time caused by the delay ,it was precisely 10 seconds ,as Carpenter confirmed on the programme.
Thirdly,Ali was up before the count of 3 and starting to walk to his corner,when Dundee grabbed him the bell had allready rung
You are talking your usual bollocks ,instead of the facts.
I`ll time it again soon, it might be possible Ive timed it when Ali got back to his feet (as you say, the bell rung when he was on his ass) but I think it was Carpenter himself that timed 65 seconds... its not really a huge deal but I was sure I timed it correct but there are a few reliable posters that seem convinced it was 10 seconds so I`ll re-time the shit & get back to you on it.
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Old 09-28-2009, 08:27 AM   #40
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Default Re: Clay vs Cooper 1963 - The between rds contraversy.

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Originally Posted by Addie View Post
Regarding the Cooper vs Ali controversial, I always got the sense that the time was exaggerated. The bottom line was that Clay came out of the next round and closed the show, making his prediction of a 5th round stoppage true. He was playing with Henry up until that point.
True, Cooper wasnt at the races as soon as Ali stepped it up, the next rd stoppage proved that despite the fact it was only stopped because of the cut, Ali still had to tag that cut often enough & did so in the rd he predicted.
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Old 09-28-2009, 08:28 AM   #41
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Default Re: Clay vs Cooper 1963 - The between rds contraversy.

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Originally Posted by Bill Butcher View Post
Time it yourself, I wont expect you you tell me Im right but at least you will know yourself.

You've been proven wrong by TBooze, accept it.
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Old 09-28-2009, 08:28 AM   #42
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Default Re: Clay vs Cooper 1963 - The between rds contraversy.

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Originally Posted by achillesthegreat View Post
It is true. Ali got 5 or 6 seconds and no Ali wasn't going to get ko'd. Yes, he was hurt but he would have tied him up, moved and took whatever followed. Ali don't get ko'd!
I think so too but for the sake of it, I`ll time it later on & get back to these cunts at some point.
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Old 09-28-2009, 08:32 AM   #43
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Default Re: Clay vs Cooper 1963 - The between rds contraversy.

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Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh View Post
You've been proven wrong by TBooze, accept it.
I will accept it after Ive re-timed it myself if he turns out to be right, no problem there but the last time I just took someone elses word for it (Henry Cooper`s) I thought Ali had 90 seconds recovery.

The clock doesnt lie, let you know how it goes.
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Old 09-28-2009, 08:34 AM   #44
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Default Re: Clay vs Cooper 1963 - The between rds contraversy.

The radio 'live feed' provided by TBooze is more than enough evidence, not you counting "one one-thousand, two one-thousand......."
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Old 09-28-2009, 08:37 AM   #45
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Default Re: Clay vs Cooper 1963 - The between rds contraversy.

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Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh View Post
The radio 'live feed' provided by TBooze is more than enough evidence, not you counting "one one-thousand, two one-thousand......."
I must have missed that footage provided by TBooze, all I seen was words.

As said on a previous post, I will time it properly, bell to bell.


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