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Old 10-04-2009, 08:39 AM   #16
he grant
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Default Re: Duran-Hearns

I've watched that fight many times .. a terrible match up at 154 for the 33 year old , poorly trained Duran. However, I am convinced the Duran of Montreal had the skills to defeat Hearns if he used his brains, fought cautiously for the first few rounds like Leonard did and pored it on later.
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Old 10-04-2009, 08:54 AM   #17
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Default Re: Duran-Hearns

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Originally Posted by he grant View Post
I've watched that fight many times .. a terrible match up at 154 for the 33 year old , poorly trained Duran. However, I am convinced the Duran of Montreal had the skills to defeat Hearns if he used his brains, fought cautiously for the first few rounds like Leonard did and pored it on later.
So you think he could withstand the early onslaught, to score a late TKO?
Cause I really don't see winning a decision.
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Old 10-04-2009, 09:05 AM   #18
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Default Re: Duran-Hearns

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Nah, Im not buying it MR.BILL....

Dejesus I - Took him lightly, non-title fight.
Leonard II - Outta shape, too much money to turn down, stomach cramps.
Benitez - Still suffereing from `no mas` mentally, lost his drive, conditioning could have been better.
Kirkland Laing - Took him lightly, outta shape again.
Hearns - Women, booze, thought Tommy was a chicken etc.
Robbie Sims - Choose one of the above.

You see the pattern developing here ?

Roberto Duran is easily one of my favourite fighters & undisputedly a top 10 ATG but he is one terrible loser, really really bad, **** me, this guy is the king of excuses, for real... .... no doubt at all.

Agreed. Duran was also loco back in his day. Especially when in prime condition... he was coiled tightly and those two old men (who are the two biggest reasons why he was great) had all they could handle with keeping him on the edge of sanity. Watch him in that Leonard I fight and particularly at the end after the final bell. He ain't right in the head.

Duran was crazy, and crazy tough. Tougher than Charles Bronson, John Wayne, Achilles, Richard the Lionheart, Goliath, and Godzilla. Combined. I kid but seriously, I don't know many guys like that who DON'T make excuses. Some guys have to because they're living in a myth of their own making and they have to preserve that myth.

Duran, well, he came to closest to making that myth real.
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Old 10-04-2009, 09:13 AM   #19
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Default Re: Duran-Hearns

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Originally Posted by Caponecartels View Post
So you think he could withstand the early onslaught, to score a late TKO?
Cause I really don't see winning a decision.
Sorry to jump in on this question but I'd personally give the Montreal version of Duran (and only that version) a 50/50 shot against Tommy at 147. I don't think any version of Duran that we saw could be Tommy at 154. It's not like Leonard wasn't throwing bombs at Duran in Montreal. Granted it's a different fight against Tommy, but Tommy damn well better keep Duran on the outside or get him early. Duran's speed, defense, and abillity to close the gap in Montreal was as good as I've seen. To me, Tommy could get Duran early or middle rounds otherwise Duran gets him late. I don't see it going to a decision.
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Old 10-04-2009, 10:49 AM   #20
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Default Re: Duran-Hearns

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Agreed. Duran was also loco back in his day. Especially when in prime condition... he was coiled tightly and those two old men (who are the two biggest reasons why he was great) had all they could handle with keeping him on the edge of sanity. Watch him in that Leonard I fight and particularly at the end after the final bell. He ain't right in the head.

Duran was crazy, and crazy tough. Tougher than Charles Bronson, John Wayne, Achilles, Richard the Lionheart, Goliath, and Godzilla. Combined. I kid but seriously, I don't know many guys like that who DON'T make excuses. Some guys have to because they're living in a myth of their own making and they have to preserve that myth.

Duran, well, he came to closest to making that myth real.
So crazy about being macho, he had to make up
excuses for when he lost so he could continue being macho?

Is that correct?
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Old 10-04-2009, 11:01 AM   #21
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Default Re: Duran-Hearns

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So crazy about being macho, he had to make up
excuses for when he lost so he could continue being macho?

Is that correct?
Duran was a bit tapped in the head. He was also a very tough hombre. When Duran lost for any reason, he'd have excuses. What happened in New Orleans was stupidity, not fear of being hurt because Leonard wasn't doing much else besides making him look and feel foolish. Duran thought "hell, I won't win this so I'll quit because I don't the gas, but he'll give me another shot and then I'll kill him." -that was in all likelihood his thought processes. And it was full of thinking errors.
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Old 10-04-2009, 12:27 PM   #22
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Default Re: Duran-Hearns

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Originally Posted by Stonehands89 View Post
Duran was a bit tapped in the head. He was also a very tough hombre. When Duran lost for any reason, he'd have excuses. What happened in New Orleans was stupidity, not fear of being hurt because Leonard wasn't doing much else besides making him look and feel foolish. Duran thought "hell, I won't win this so I'll quit because I don't the gas, but he'll give me another shot and then I'll kill him." -that was in all likelihood his thought processes. And it was full of thinking errors.
Perhaps. Since he gave Leonard such a quick rematch,
I would think he assumed that he'd get the same.
Didn't work out that way though. But would he have been able
to recreate Montreal again?
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Old 10-04-2009, 02:19 PM   #23
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Default Re: Duran-Hearns

The result also likely had something to do with a point you could term as 'career momentum'.

Just as Foreman was out to punish a pudgy Frazier, so too was a 25 year old Hearn's ready to annihilate the man who had given Hagler (a fighter he had his sights set on) a good scrap.

When Tommy said two rounds, he really did mean two rounds.
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Old 10-04-2009, 03:54 PM   #24
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Default Re: Duran-Hearns

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Perhaps. Since he gave Leonard such a quick rematch,
I would think he assumed that he'd get the same.
Didn't work out that way though. But would he have been able
to recreate Montreal again?
No. It was lightning in a bottle. Duran would never have beaten Leonard again without the covergence of variables that occured at the time he did beat him. Had the fight taken place earlier Duran would not have developed into a WW as comfortably. Had it taken place afterwards, Duran's powers of youth had diminished too far to be able to rise to a victory. When did you ever see Duran move with that kind of agility and mobility again? He was on wheels against Leonard in Montreal. He never would approach that level of formidability again in his career.
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Old 10-04-2009, 04:06 PM   #25
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Default Re: Duran-Hearns

That was Duran at his absoulute worst and Tommy hat his best,but i think duran would never have beaten tommy above 147. He would have done better had he trained and even would have gone the distance put even durans best at 154 and 160 was only about 80% of what it was as a light weight or when he beat Leonard in Montreal. The Duran that gave hagler all he wanted and the one that beat moore would have went the distance but lost a convincing decision. Know at 147 the duran who beat leonard Might beat hearns,DUran might have been fast enough to avoid many of tommys biggest shots and fired up enought to get to tommy.Duran had a cast iron chin when he was 100% and he still packed some good power at welter(though not like at lightweigt)
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Old 10-04-2009, 04:19 PM   #26
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Default Re: Duran-Hearns

Duran was terribly unprepared for Hearns. Hearns was at his absolute prime. Bad judgement by Roberto.

I do feel a prime Duran at welter had a much better shot. Let's not forget how Leonard almost stopped Tommy with one left hook to the body. A prime Duran has a much better shot. He is no Pipino Cuevas, he had much better defensive talent and was much better. Unfortunately for Duran he went into the 84 fight w Tommy all wrong and hot his ass handed to him.
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Old 10-04-2009, 04:37 PM   #27
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Default Re: Duran-Hearns

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Originally Posted by he grant View Post
Duran was terribly unprepared for Hearns. Hearns was at his absolute prime. Bad judgement by Roberto.

I do feel a prime Duran at welter had a much better shot. Let's not forget how Leonard almost stopped Tommy with one left hook to the body. A prime Duran has a much better shot. He is no Pipino Cuevas, he had much better defensive talent and was much better. Unfortunately for Duran he went into the 84 fight w Tommy all wrong and hot his ass handed to him.

Fully agree with this.
In with a puncher like Hearns as well. On another night at welter and a bit younger could well of been a different story.
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Old 10-04-2009, 04:46 PM   #28
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Default Re: Duran-Hearns

He does have a better shot if he was a well prepared, focused Duran. I think the prime difference between them, speed and reach, would still be obstacles that even Duran would not overcome. It wouldn't be a 2 rounds blow-out but Duran would be stopped at some point.
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Old 10-04-2009, 07:18 PM   #29
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Default Re: Duran-Hearns

i felt like he undertrained but was confident that could starch hearns. if leonard the guy he beat only really attacked hearns in the last rounds of there fight and stopped him with only a few solid punches. then i would take into acount that my chin, defence and power would be enough to get through to him.

notice how duran is actually the one circling. to me i think he was planning to counter tommys jab with his right cross. about half way through the first round though you can see that he is starting to forget what ever plan he was thinking of doing and basicly just starts to walk into him. hearns being one step ahead at all times. every punch duran lands he takes somthing for it. just looked at the exchanges, roberto was just at sea.

best layed plans
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Old 10-04-2009, 11:00 PM   #30
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Default Re: Duran-Hearns

Emanuel Steward said Duran always got real quiet when he was around Tommy because he knew they would have to fight sometime.

154 lbs was Hearns' perfect weight.
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