Duran-Hearns

[Sister Sledge]

Originally Posted by he grant

I've watched that fight many times .. a terrible match up at 154 for the 33 year old , poorly trained Duran. However, I am convinced the Duran of Montreal had the skills to defeat Hearns if he used his brains, fought cautiously for the first few rounds like Leonard did and pored it on later.

You know, Hearns was outboxing Leonard in that fight. The only way Duran could win is to knock Hearns out, and we all know what would happen if he tried that against the bigger, faster and stronger Hearns.

[My2Sense]

Originally Posted by Caponecartels

Now on to my question. Was Duran fighting a different strategy than normal?
Yes i know he was past prime and overweight and that jazz,
but to me he wasn't really going inside intelligently against Hearns,
just trying to bum rush him with no head movement at all.
Could he have fared better if he had?
Or was Hearns always gonna win?

To me, he basically froze as soon as he got a taste of Hearns' power. You could even see it in his facial expressions and body language, he was completely shocked by how hard Hearns it and it took him out of any intelligent gameplan he might've had.

[Sister Sledge]

I don't buy the fact that Duran didn't train for Tommy. I'm pretty sure everybody trained for Tommy at that time. Duran just ran into a force of nature that night. When Duran fought Leonard in Montreal, he was on another level, the highest he could be. When Tommy fought Duran, he was on his highest level. Hearns could have knocked anyone out that night, Robinson, McCallum, Leonard. They all migh have fallen that night.

[MRBILL]

Duran could handle Hearns' power, but not his blazing hand speed and reach....... Duran was just too sluggish and short and old at age 33, and 154 pounds to deal with a peak Hearns at 154............. Duran was just too pussy whipped and slow to get outta the way of Hearns' speed.......... In 1984, Hearns was KING at 154 pounds......... Peace.....

MR.BILL

[Sister Sledge]

Originally Posted by MRBILL

Duran could handle Hearns' power, but not his blazing hand speed and reach....... Duran was just too sluggish and short and old at age 33, and 154 pounds to deal with a peak Hearns at 154............. Duran was just too pussy whipped and slow to get outta the way of Hearns' speed.......... In 1984, Hearns was KING at 154 pounds......... Peace.....

MR.BILL

Why are you making excuses for Duran saying he was pussy whipped. Any version of Duran would have fallen. Hearns was in seek and destroy mode for this fight. The was nothing Roberto could do. Duran fought on and fought better fights than this, so saying he was too old is kinda out the window. He just got ambushed early and taken out of the fight.
He couldn't handle the power or the speed. Duran was getting knocked down like a bowling pin the whole fight.

[MRBILL]

Originally Posted by Sister Sledge

Why are you making excuses for Duran saying he was pussy whipped. Any version of Duran would have fallen. Hearns was in seek and destroy mode for this fight. The was nothing Roberto could do. Duran fought on and fought better fights than this, so saying he was too old is kinda out the window. He just got ambushed early and taken out of the fight.
He couldn't handle the power or the speed. Duran was getting knocked down like a bowling pin the whole fight.

Look, I've been sniffing Duran's jockstrap for over 30 yrs.... But when I saw Duran come into the ring back in '84 and take a seat on the stool prior to the start with a disinterested look on his face, I knew he was gonna get his ass kicked.... That was Duran at his worst... Tommy Hearns KO'd a weakend Duran who barely made weight and was there to collect a check..... The fight sucked..... Duran prolly could NOT beat Hearns in 1984 at 154 pounds, but I know Goddamn well Duran could've done better had he given a flying fuck..... That's all I'm saying.....


MR.BILL

[Shake]

In theory, even knowing what we know now, going in to slug it out with Hearns early is the correct gameplan for Roberto Duran. Hearns has a weak chin and weak legs, and every minute you draw out the fight he will dominate you with a jab named SNAP and a right-hand named singing fat lady.

Duran went in meaning to nock Tommy out early. Why not, he had an iron chin, sublime pain resistance and herculean willpower -- surely, for those four rounds it could take at most, he could survive anything Hearns did?

I don't think it mattered all that much that Duran undertrained. He gambled and lost. Lets not forget that's exactly what Hagler did, and he won. It was a sound gameplan, Hagler was just more durable at these weights than Duran.

[Stonehands89]

Originally Posted by Shake

In theory, even knowing what we know now, going in to slug it out with Hearns early is the correct gameplan for Roberto Duran. Hearns has a weak chin and weak legs, and every minute you draw out the fight he will dominate you with a jab named SNAP and a right-hand named singing fat lady.

Duran went in meaning to nock Tommy out early. Why not, he had an iron chin, sublime pain resistance and herculean willpower -- surely, for those four rounds it could take at most, he could survive anything Hearns did?

I don't think it mattered all that much that Duran undertrained. He gambled and lost. Lets not forget that's exactly what Hagler did, and he won. It was a sound gameplan, Hagler was just more durable at these weights than Duran.

Good post, though I disagree that slugging it out early with Hearns is smart for any man this side of Hagler. Duran wasn't really slugging it out anyway -he fought him exactly wrong --wrong distance, wrong stance, stayed in front of him, everything. Shocking really that a man of Duran's caliber would utilize a strategy based on insanity. I think he had no strategy, personally.

The only way a peak Duran would ever beat Hearns, in my opinion, would be to get close, and stay close, bang the body, and angle around that praying mantis. It would be a strategy of survival first, body snatching second. Overhand rights and sneak shots upstairs would help. After round 5, Duran, if he were still there, should then switch gears and go to war. Hearns is not as dangerous roughly after that point.

[MRBILL]

Originally Posted by Stonehands89

Good post, though I disagree that slugging it out early with Hearns is smart for any man this side of Hagler. Duran wasn't really slugging it out anyway -he fought him exactly wrong --wrong distance, wrong stance, stayed in front of him, everything. Shocking really that a man of Duran's caliber would utilize a strategy based on insanity. I think he had no strategy, personally.

The only way a peak Duran would ever beat Hearns, in my opinion, would be to get close, and stay close, bang the body, and angle around that praying mantis. It would be a strategy of survival first, body snatching second. Overhand rights and sneak shots upstairs would help. After round 5, Duran, if he were still there, should then switch gears and go to war. Hearns is not as dangerous roughly after that point.

I hear you all, but I kinda' beg to differ on Duran's plan......... Duran was listed at 178 pounds at the March of '84 press conference with Tommy Hearns..... Hearns looked normal, while Duran looked puffy in the chin and face, and strike zone.... Duran trained for Hearns, however, Duran wanted to fight at 160 more so than 154 in 1984.... BUT! This was a title fight, so Duran had to make 154.....

No doubt that Duran was weakened to a degree by dropping down to 154 pounds in 1984... No Doubt... And from what I had heard through the grapevine is, Duran was actually looking to go at it slow with Hearns and box a tactical but professional fight with Hearns in Vegas...... YES! Duran knew Hearns had a shaky chin, and Duran was looking to land some sneaky punches on Hearns to test that chin too... But it was Hearns who shot a long right that caught Duran high on the head in the middle of round 1 that caused Duran to back the fuck up... Duran was soon cut by either a razor jab or the laces from Hearns.... BOOM!! Hearns lands a right hand to the side of Duran's mug and Duran drops like he's been shot... I knew right then that Duran didn't have much gas in the tank as was gonna be seeing stars in just a moment or two......... Well, it happened....


MR.BILL

[duranimal]

Originally Posted by MRBILL

I hear you all, but I kinda' beg to differ on Duran's plan......... Duran was listed at 178 pounds at the March of '84 press conference with Tommy Hearns..... Hearns looked normal, while Duran looked puffy in the chin and face, and strike zone.... Duran trained for Hearns, however, Duran wanted to fight at 160 more so than 154 in 1984.... BUT! This was a title fight, so Duran had to make 154.....

No doubt that Duran was weakened to a degree by dropping down to 154 pounds in 1984... No Doubt... And from what I had heard through the grapevine is, Duran was actually looking to go at it slow with Hearns and box a tactical but professional fight with Hearns in Vegas...... YES! Duran knew Hearns had a shaky chin, and Duran was looking to land some sneaky punches on Hearns to test that chin too... But it was Hearns who shot a long right that caught Duran high on the head in the middle of round 1 that caused Duran to back the fuck up... Duran was soon cut by either a razor jab or the laces from Hearns.... BOOM!! Hearns lands a right hand to the side of Duran's mug and Duran drops like he's been shot... I knew right then that Duran didn't have much gas in the tank as was gonna be seeing stars in just a moment or two......... Well, it happened....


MR.BILL

Yeh, i recken everyone here's got a percentage of this, talk about the worst day of my life, just got the utilities back on, did'nt know the result, just got a job after 2 years after Maggi Thatcher threw me onto to benifits, the wifes back into blowing me now i've got cash on me cock & hey., life's lookin good

Then this nightmare unfolds in slow motion before me while i choke on my 1st beer in age's, my buddy turned up unexpected (hearns fan) just thought we'd watch it together he said, bastard obviously knew the result, even he was shocked at Duran's demeanor, remember when their feet tangled in the 1st & Duran put his glove out to Hearns, my mate said, THAT AI'NT DURAN, WHATS WITH HIM?

I remember yelping I could handle new orleans, but this i just collapsed back in silence, i just could'nt take in what i saw, i don't think there's ever been another fighter in history that has made his fans so happy then crushes them, talk about a fuckin yoyo, my buddy tries to be diplomatic & barely concealing his euphoria & glee said comm'on lets go down the boozer & on entering the bar all i hear is some cunt gob off "Hey mate" did you see that big lanky fucker spark that fat little greaseball a lively afternoon indeed

HAS ANYONE ELSE HERE EXPEAREANCED A SIMILAR down'er when there fav has been beat & had too front up the mass of grinning bastards

[MRBILL]

Originally Posted by duranimal

Yeh, i recken everyone here's got a percentage of this, talk about the worst day of my life, just got the utilities back on, did'nt know the result, just got a job after 2 years after Maggi Thatcher threw me onto to benifits, the wifes back into blowing me now i've got cash on me cock & hey., life's lookin good

Then this nightmare unfolds in slow motion before me while i choke on my 1st beer in age's, my buddy turned up unexpected (hearns fan) just thought we'd watch it together he said, bastard obviously knew the result, even he was shocked at Duran's demeanor, remember when their feet tangled in the 1st & Duran put his glove out to Hearns, my mate said, THAT AI'NT DURAN, WHATS WITH HIM?

I remember yelping I could handle new orleans, but this i just collapsed back in silence, i just could'nt take in what i saw, i don't think there's ever been another fighter in history that has made his fans so happy then crushes them, talk about a fuckin yoyo, my buddy tries to be diplomatic & barely concealing his euphoria & glee said comm'on lets go down the boozer & on entering the bar all i hear is some cunt gob off "Hey mate" did you see that big lanky fucker spark that fat little greaseball a lively afternoon indeed

HAS ANYONE ELSE HERE EXPEAREANCED A SIMILAR down'er when there fav has been beat & had too front up the mass of grinning bastards

It was sad seeing Hearns crush Duran and it pained me to see Holmes get clocked and stopped by Tyson in '88......... And, I was shocked and disgusted with Tyson fighting like a faded pug against McBride in 2005... Them were some down periods.......


MR.BILL

[Robbi]

Mr Bill. How do you see these fights playing out...........

Duran-Hearns, welterweight.

Duran-Whitaker, lightweight.

Duran-McCallum, jr-middleweight.

[MRBILL]

[quote=Robbi;5097955]Mr Bill. How do you see these fights playing out...........

Duran-Hearns, welterweight.

Duran-Whitaker, lightweight.

Duran-McCallum, jr-middleweight.[/quote)

Duran might have had a chance at 147 in 1980 against a still green Hearns... A tuff call.......

Duran from '75 against Whitaker of '87 at 135, would be a tactical bore.... Who knows??? I like Duran......

Duran in late '83 against a green McCallum would've been interesting...... If Duran was serious like he was for Hagler; Duran wins..... If Duran is pussy whipped looking for a check; Duran loses.......

MR.BILL

[Mohak]

Originally Posted by MRBILL

The Hearns who parked a disinterested Duran in 1984 out in Vegas looked primed at 154 pounds.............. No Welter or Jr. Middle could beat Hearns on that June night.........

I swear to Christ, Duran entered the ring looking like he just crawled outta bed with a couple of bitches....... Duran was there to collect a 2.5 million dollar check..... Duran hoped he would not have to get parked, but sometimes that comes with the check......

MR.BILL

Never heard this argument before.

[pare]

Originally Posted by PetethePrince

He didn't respect Hearns. Thought he couldn't take a punch and didn't think he was tough enough. Didn't turn out well for him... but he blames it all on being hit on top of the head and all that alcohol pouring down on him or something... I don't know.

nah, he was scared to death of hearns. manny steward told that story of hearns spooking duran years before the fight and that duran was scared of hearns cos he knew he'd have to fight him someday. duran's demeanor in the fight confirmed it for me.